Remote PWD change should cost AP

[Crlaozwyn]

Now I know it costs AP to install a sniffer daemon, but not very much - I think that the remote password change should cost AP... at LEAST as much as it costs to reset your own password. As it is, someone could install sniffer daemons on his/herself and reset their password for free. There are those who are just resetting IP passwords in bulk - and it costs them nothing, and they can do it day after day. Thoughts?

EDIT: changed IP to password in a few places.

[ZacQuicksilver]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a sniffer doesn't reset IP, just the password.

[Tiak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a sniffer doesn't reset IP, just the password.

He seems to have typed "IP change" because he was so used to it on these forums, from the context, he meant password change, and the point still stands.

[Crlaozwyn]

Thank you Tiak, that's correct. I did mention changing passwords as often as changing IP, but I've typed IP change so much it's become a force of habit. Fortunately, people aren't resetting IPs on public and secret servers every day, but it's still a nuisance that they're changing passwords daily without penalty. It doesn't make sense that it's free to do to others, but costs 30 to do it to yourself.

As I remember, the original point of the remote pass change was for inactive player accounts. While I see how resetting public/secret passwords could be useful in covering up your trail, not only is it rather pointless with IP change, but it seems like an abuse of the AP system when you can reset a password every day for a one-time cost of 27AP (which also tracks everyone's connections).

[Tiak]

It's also worth noting that it takes very little in the way of resources to install a 0.1 sniffer on yourself and get free PW changes for life.


Edit:  Gah, I'm doing it too now... fixed.

[Master Shake]

  First off,lets stop with the IP change thing,because sniffers dont change IPs. And yes,thats me spamming the servers with it. Doing it in bulk is the only effective means there is,and public servers are a pain to keep em on. And you can change your password through sniffers every 24 hours. I keep one install on me because its easy to trace it back and few would suspect I would have one installed on me. In the past 24 hours ive recorded 60 IPs,and a few from people in the top 20. And to be honest,doing them en masse does actually suck up a lot of APs down the road. Doing this process actually got me down under the 3000 AP mark (2000 AP in 24 hours). Its just a diversion to entertain myself while waiting on other things. If left unchecked,however,...well.

[Crlaozwyn]

*chuckles* Why am I not surprised that you disagree with me, MasterShake? There are a few possibilities: A) You're a very argumentative person, and any time you see my name you go into a white-hot rage and feel the need to disagree. B) It just so happens that we are polar opposites on every issue known to man. C) You are using every bug, exploit, and workaround I can possibly think of, and are actually defending your own best interests while attacking the interests of the rest of the game (and yes, that includes me).

The talk about IP change was essentially a typo on my part, which was fixed long before you even looked at this thread - it's a moot point. The fact that you're doing it in bulk IS the issue - not because it records IPs, but because the passwords are changing as well. Doing anything en masse costs AP - that was the reason for AP in the first place. Still, you can install ~40 of them every day (including the cost of upload) - that means you can reset an additional 40 passwords every day - within a week you could be resetting every secret server password in the game. Let's be conservative in our estimates, shall we? Only 5 people have access to each server. That means that every time you spend 0 AP resetting the password, you cost 5 people 30 AP, or 150 AP total. Every day you can cost an additional 6000 AP just so people can keep playing the game. Seeing the issue yet? It's more an a diversion, it's a bug. Remote password change was implemented before the AP system, and with all our other gripes I'm sure it fell between the cracks.

And installing a sniffer on yourself isn't actually a unique idea - it was discussed (and posted) nearly a week ago on the SGP forums in the "currently legal exploits section." Changing a password costs 30AP, but this gets you around that cost - nearly the textbook definition of a bug, wouldn't you say? (of course you won't. It was a rhetorical question.)

[Master Shake]

  "You are using every bug, exploit, and workaround."
 
  Show me where on THIS forum(SGP forums dont count for jack because theyre unofficial,biased,and just a pathetic way to get attention) that it is said by Siremi that any of the "bug,exploits,and workarounds" you describe are actually listed as such. Not liking something and labeling it an "exploit" when you dont have the credentials to do so (i.e.,being a developer of the game) doesnt make it true.
  Quite frankly,I dont care what the AP costs are-This is the only time Ive EVER dipped below 3000 AP. If Siremi deems the cost too little,then Im sure the needed changes will be implemented. IF SIREMI SAYS SO,NOT SGP. Im getting fed up with every aspect of the game that SGP doesnt like getting labeled a "bug,exploit,and workaround."
  Im uploading Sniffers to servers-Anything else SGP doesnt like? Can I look at my screen? Can I breathe? Shove your complaints and whining where it obviously came from.

 EDIT- Just a little truth,said by "the face of SGP", virus man-
   "I am also going to be seeding all servers with an IP sniffer far above what can be cloaked against."
   "Once I have the Time stamp I can quickly track them down.  Only time I run into a snag is with cracking.  Plus with the Sniffer installed I can rapidly change the Passwords effectively keeping the servers in lock down mode if I so wanted."

   So SGP doesnt have any claim as this being an "exploit",unless they want to admit using it themselves. Just because someone not affiliated with the winged monkeys did it,its an "exploit".

[virus man]

  "You are using every bug, exploit, and workaround."
 
  Show me where on THIS forum(SGP forums dont count for jack because theyre unofficial,biased,and just a pathetic way to get attention) that it is said by Siremi that any of the "bug,exploits,and workarounds" you describe are actually listed as such. Not liking something and labeling it an "exploit" when you dont have the credentials to do so (i.e.,being a developer of the game) doesnt make it true.
  Quite frankly,I dont care what the AP costs are-This is the only time Ive EVER dipped below 3000 AP. If Siremi deems the cost too little,then Im sure the needed changes will be implemented. IF SIREMI SAYS SO,NOT SGP. Im getting fed up with every aspect of the game that SGP doesnt like getting labeled a "bug,exploit,and workaround."
  Im uploading Sniffers to servers-Anything else SGP doesnt like? Can I look at my screen? Can I breathe? Shove your complaints and whining where it obviously came from.

 EDIT- Just a little truth,said by "the face of SGP", virus man-
   "I am also going to be seeding all servers with an IP sniffer far above what can be cloaked against."
   "Once I have the Time stamp I can quickly track them down.  Only time I run into a snag is with cracking.  Plus with the Sniffer installed I can rapidly change the Passwords effectively keeping the servers in lock down mode if I so wanted."

   So SGP doesnt have any claim as this being an "exploit",unless they want to admit using it themselves. Just because someone not affiliated with the winged monkeys did it,its an "exploit".

blah blah blah.  Ok Master Shake we all know you can't play the game to save your life.  You can only troll on the boards and cry about quitting only to come back and say someone else was lieing about it.

Fact of the matter is when SGP does something in large amounts then Sir Emi realizes how abusable it is and fixes it.

Tell me Master Shake when was the last time you got anything put onto the Task List or changed in game by making it publicly known?

SGP has had SEVERAL instances of that.   Now you want to bad mouth us fine.  We will be happy to give you a reason to bad mouth us just because we don't have much else to do being in the top of the game.

And as for the SGP forums comments.   The forums are mainly for SGP use with a section set aside for public use where we post various things to help new players or to bring abusable "features" to light.   Have you even bothered to do anything near that?  When was the last time you wrote a tutorial for this game?  When was the last time you helped out with answering questions in the forums without trying to belittle someone?

Peace Out Shake.

[Master Shake]

  "You are using every bug, exploit, and workaround."
 
  Show me where on THIS forum(SGP forums dont count for jack because theyre unofficial,biased,and just a pathetic way to get attention) that it is said by Siremi that any of the "bug,exploits,and workarounds" you describe are actually listed as such. Not liking something and labeling it an "exploit" when you dont have the credentials to do so (i.e.,being a developer of the game) doesnt make it true.
  Quite frankly,I dont care what the AP costs are-This is the only time Ive EVER dipped below 3000 AP. If Siremi deems the cost too little,then Im sure the needed changes will be implemented. IF SIREMI SAYS SO,NOT SGP. Im getting fed up with every aspect of the game that SGP doesnt like getting labeled a "bug,exploit,and workaround."
  Im uploading Sniffers to servers-Anything else SGP doesnt like? Can I look at my screen? Can I breathe? Shove your complaints and whining where it obviously came from.

 EDIT- Just a little truth,said by "the face of SGP", virus man-
   "I am also going to be seeding all servers with an IP sniffer far above what can be cloaked against."
   "Once I have the Time stamp I can quickly track them down.  Only time I run into a snag is with cracking.  Plus with the Sniffer installed I can rapidly change the Passwords effectively keeping the servers in lock down mode if I so wanted."

   So SGP doesnt have any claim as this being an "exploit",unless they want to admit using it themselves. Just because someone not affiliated with the winged monkeys did it,its an "exploit".

blah blah blah.  Ok Master Shake we all know you can't play the game to save your life.  You can only troll on the boards and cry about quitting only to come back and say someone else was lieing about it.

Fact of the matter is when SGP does something in large amounts then Sir Emi realizes how abusable it is and fixes it.

Tell me Master Shake when was the last time you got anything put onto the Task List or changed in game by making it publicly known?

SGP has had SEVERAL instances of that.   Now you want to bad mouth us fine.  We will be happy to give you a reason to bad mouth us just because we don't have much else to do being in the top of the game.

And as for the SGP forums comments.   The forums are mainly for SGP use with a section set aside for public use where we post various things to help new players or to bring abusable "features" to light.   Have you even bothered to do anything near that?  When was the last time you wrote a tutorial for this game?  When was the last time you helped out with answering questions in the forums without trying to belittle someone?

Peace Out Shake.

  This is it? This is your response to using the same "bug, exploit, and workaround" that I did? I would have expected as much from your minions,but this is just sad.
   First off, Ive been back for quite some time-Its not news to anyone paying attention. As for your "humanitarian efforts". While I applaud the endeavor to make the game better,I fail to see where my lack of contribution comes into play here. Suggesting ideas to implement in-game hardly gives anyone the right to label something a "bug, exploit, and workaround."
   If SGP does something its "to bring abusable "features" to light."-If I do the same thing its "using every bug, exploit, and workaround." Why is it every time I do something,you and the winged monkeys start complaining. Am I abusing anything? NO,not at the moment. Know why? Its not a "bug, exploit, and workaround." Guess why it isnt? Because the developer hasnt said it was.
  And Im not bad mouthing you-YOUR bad mouthing you. You do the same things you complain and whine about others doing,and label them "exploiters",while your " helping to make the game better". Its an obvious double standard that everyone can see. And you can take whatever measures you deem needed,but we both know it wont do anything in the long run. Maybe instead of trying to customize the game to what you want,you can play the game someone else made?

[Crlaozwyn]

*WHITE NOISE* Woah, I guess MS must have posted again. Stop trolling. If your post says "if siremi wants to fix it" then there was no purpose for your post. If your post says "SGP is evil" then we get it, and it's still off topic. Unless you have something on topic to say that isn't obvious, stop trolling. Also, I never said you were abusing exploits - I actually gave 3 options... the fact that you chose the only one with exploits in it to quote speaks volumes about you, and says nothing about me.

Lock down the entire game if you want. Does this help the new players? Who's going to get hurt more? The people with enough virii installed that their income is comfortable (to say the least) or those who need to finish every possible 5 hpd mission, and now can't because you've reset the password... Think about what you're trying to do here.

Trolls aside, I am really interested in what siremi has to say about this. If he says it's legit, then we'll start doing it too. Heck, there's enough people in SGP that we could make sure no one ever plays this game again (that was sarcastic, btw).

ADD: Today's bonus - a few definitions of exploit: "To make use of selfishly or unethically" or "To employ to the greatest possible advantage" or "use or manipulate to one's advantage." Ironically enough, none of those mention a developer, and all are subjective.

[Crlaozwyn]

BUMP - because it's happening even more, and hasn't been addressed yet.