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Feedback Terminal => Suggestions => Topic started by: siremi on March 06, 2009, 01:58:02 PM



Title: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 06, 2009, 01:58:02 PM
I want to introduce a new software called a "Process Tracer".

Description: Software used by an experienced tracker to analyze a process in search for remnants of the gateway IP that started the process. Software is capable of retrieving an IP even after an IP Change, if the process is still up by listening to the connection between target and receiver.

- will cost about 20 AP and will require 30 minutes for each task (fixed timer on 30 min). Several tasks may be started on same process.
- will require a bit of resources, and can only be started from local gateway to act on local or remote process, like the vir breaker. Will require enough hardware.
- default chance to find the IP responsible for the process will be 5%, and each 0.01 version will increase the chance by 0.001%, up to the maximum chance of 25%.
- Tracer can not be used on virii processes, but could be used on virii activation procs, remote disinfects, vir breaker attempts, del file attempts etc.

I think this can be a nice pvp improvement.
Please comment, suggest changes before implementation.

Thank you.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jager on March 06, 2009, 02:26:38 PM
Interesting idea!

Question - when is that max 25% achieved - at which version? (too lazy to do the math :) )
So after that point, research on this software is useless (unless for points?)

This slims the 'god' mode and can lead to interesting strategies ...

What happens if the process you are tracing is completed meanwhile (for example - virii is installed)

So much for now :)

lpJ.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jimmi33 on March 06, 2009, 02:48:53 PM
Indeed this is very nice! but i don't understand why you didn't just modify the VI a bit?


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 06, 2009, 03:03:54 PM
Interesting idea!

Question - when is that max 25% achieved - at which version? (too lazy to do the math :) )
So after that point, research on this software is useless (unless for points?)

This slims the 'god' mode and can lead to interesting strategies ...

What happens if the process you are tracing is completed meanwhile (for example - virii is installed)

So much for now :)

lpJ.

Process Tracer V 100 will give a 15% chance, V 200 will give 25% chance.

If the process is completed and turns into a virii process, a red message will inform you that it is a virii and can not be traced anymore.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 06, 2009, 03:06:07 PM
Indeed this is very nice! but i don't understand why you didn't just modify the VI a bit?


Simple, more software creates more diversity :)


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jager on March 06, 2009, 04:34:46 PM
First thank you for your answers. No comments there.
Another question :)
If the process is started on remote process (like VI or breaker), is it shown on remote computer too? And if it is shown there - can it be killed on the remote host or only on local gateway that started it?

Just some questions to help completing this upgrade sooner :) Cos I see lots of good use for it.

lpJ.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Ginjitsu on March 06, 2009, 05:45:05 PM
I think this could be a cool feature to add but instead of limiting it to 25% make it that for every v100 researched you get another 10% added to the chance of finding the IP with an equal increase in the hardware necessary to run it at such a higher level with a v1000 giving you a 100% chance.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: virus man on March 06, 2009, 05:48:22 PM
% is to low to be honest.  I mean if it uses resources like most of the software a V200 will require massive hardware specs.  We want to keep it lower to allow younger players the chance to use it etc.

I would say 5% base with a 1% increase each full version up to 25% cap.  That way it allows max benefit for all players to use and not just the top players.  (Read as in allowing even those down around rank 200 to be able to use it instead of just Rank15+)


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 07, 2009, 01:43:01 PM
% is to low to be honest.  I mean if it uses resources like most of the software a V200 will require massive hardware specs.  We want to keep it lower to allow younger players the chance to use it etc.

I would say 5% base with a 1% increase each full version up to 25% cap.  That way it allows max benefit for all players to use and not just the top players.  (Read as in allowing even those down around rank 200 to be able to use it instead of just Rank15+)

I'll make sure the resources usage will not be that high, but not too low, so the low version could be used by anyone while the high version gets increasingly more resources.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: gs 059 on March 07, 2009, 09:22:47 PM
could use it right now, since you made it so that owned servers cannot stop remote processes on themselves...


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Araeus on March 08, 2009, 01:23:49 PM
% is to low to be honest.  I mean if it uses resources like most of the software a V200 will require massive hardware specs.  We want to keep it lower to allow younger players the chance to use it etc.

I would say 5% base with a 1% increase each full version up to 25% cap.  That way it allows max benefit for all players to use and not just the top players.  (Read as in allowing even those down around rank 200 to be able to use it instead of just Rank15+)

I think the % chances are pretty fine actually.  Seriously, a 25% chance to get the target's IP would be more than worth a huge resource cost to run it, that's a ridiculously good chance.

Even 5% is better than the VI 2% and you can run it on a bunch of different processes...


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: gs 059 on March 08, 2009, 10:56:54 PM
wow, it uses a LOT of resources to run it.... 2400 cpu and 92000 ram for v.1


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 08, 2009, 11:01:58 PM
wow, it uses a LOT of resources to run it.... 2400 cpu and 92000 ram for v.1

yes, it's designed to be used by mid to high level player. Should have plenty of hardware once you really need to use it.

I wonder if we can think of some more mission types that make use of such a tool... hmmm


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jimmi33 on March 09, 2009, 09:57:27 AM
This needs to be added to the software dealer list.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jager on March 09, 2009, 11:18:44 AM
Question:

which IP does the tracer gives?
It was said that even if you change IP the tracer can give you new one. But does it 'trace' the process to that new IP?
So, if you change IP and have for example 4 gateways servers - to which IP will the trace lead? To the new one or just to one of the servers?

lpJ.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: bontrose on March 09, 2009, 03:15:26 PM
the one that started it


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Araeus on March 09, 2009, 04:21:23 PM
Yes, I would assume it traces to the IP of the server that started the process.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Ginjitsu on March 09, 2009, 04:34:48 PM
I think it actually traces the process back the the gateway currently running the process no matter how many Ip changes that gateway makes.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: bontrose on March 09, 2009, 05:46:52 PM
yeah ex

server1- starts process- change ip- change ip- player switches to server2-process finishes and gets server1's ip

server2- player switches to server2

server3- sits as a farm


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jager on March 09, 2009, 06:12:22 PM
yeah ex

server1- starts process- change ip- change ip- player switches to server2-process finishes and gets server1's ip

server2- player switches to server2

server3- sits as a farm

What? I don't get this ...

oh, and you can not finish process from other gateway that it was started ...


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 09, 2009, 08:39:15 PM

The tracer, if successful, will give the IP of the gateway that started the process. The process that is to be traced has to be active, or else the trace will fail. Regardless of any IP Changes on the starter of the process, the trace, when successful will lead to the current IP of the starter of the process.



Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Araeus on March 09, 2009, 10:41:12 PM
Is there a timer between attempts like the VI or can you run four or five traces on one process to try and find the IP?


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 10, 2009, 01:24:54 AM
Is there a timer between attempts like the VI or can you run four or five traces on one process to try and find the IP?

You can run several traces on the same process, it all depends on the available hardware and it costs 20 AP to complete a trace.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: virus man on March 10, 2009, 12:24:51 PM
Will it still give results on a completed or killed process?  If so then you have taken away the only defense against it unless you allow IP Cloaker to guard against it.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: gs 059 on March 10, 2009, 03:23:54 PM
once the process is gone, it is not soposed to be able to track it anymore


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Araeus on March 10, 2009, 06:40:52 PM
Yes, it appears there are no defenses against the process tracer.  Maybe another use for the rarely used IP cloaker is in order.

Give a % chance based on the tracer version versus the cloaker version for the tracer to beat out, otherwise the IP is not found...

Then you have to decide whether or not you want to have it inform that the user is using a cloaker or just say it failed.  I would say inform they are using a cloaker.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Ginjitsu on March 10, 2009, 07:10:19 PM
I agree with making a little more defense against said process tracer but instead of the IP cloaker which is for hiding your tracks hoping from Gateway to Gateway I would say using the equally rarely used Scan Blocker would be a better choice for a defense against the tracer.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jager on March 11, 2009, 06:32:08 AM
I agree with Ginjitsu. Scan blocker is the right choice for this ... However it should not completely block the possibility, only lower the %.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Araeus on March 11, 2009, 01:41:18 PM
DUR :facepalm:.  Scan blocker is what I meant.  Sorry, got confused.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: bontrose on March 11, 2009, 03:56:10 PM
lol


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: siremi on March 14, 2009, 01:18:03 PM
Will it still give results on a completed or killed process?  If so then you have taken away the only defense against it unless you allow IP Cloaker to guard against it.

The tracker wont be able to track an unexistent process. If the process is gone, the trace can not be completed.

I will see if we can add more defense with the Scan Blocker, seems like a good idea.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: jager on March 14, 2009, 02:40:33 PM
Is it possible that Process Tracer doesn't give any ranking points? I could be mistaken, or it could be a small number, but can anyone confirm this?

Thanks,
J.


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: Ginjitsu on April 02, 2009, 11:56:23 AM
Hey Emi,

    I'm curious if you have added the scan blocker as any defense against the Process Tracer yet or is that still a work in progress??


Title: Re: Process Tracer -> new software discussion
Post by: ãłþħά-∆9 on July 10, 2009, 03:33:11 AM
I was thinking about this maybe a Tracer blocker or use the scan blocker, but i think every 0.01 version should decrease chance of enemy process trace working by like %1 (or less)  like the process tracer, but in reverse :D