HP's Ethics

[Donn]

Hello,

First the definition of the word "Ethics" to make sure everybody knows what exactly I mean.

"Ethics is a major branch of philosophy, encompassing right conduct and good life. It is significantly broader than the common conception of analyzing right and wrong."

Imagine we have some sort of voting system where people could express their opinion on what is "accepted" in the HP community and what not.

For example: Putting an adware .166 (4.8 Kbs) on a server with only 5 Kbs. Done or not done?

I'd answer: It is allowed if the server is inactive (farm). When there is doubt,install adware but leave in log a message saying: help with disinfect can be found here "...". Once the adware is disinfected, do not infect the server again unless the Kbs goes above "incert amount".

Nobody would be obliged to follow these Ethics but it would be in your best interest since some people could try and make sure everybody follows these rules / make sure the "bad" people wont do it again.

For example: I start infecting everybody who has only 10 Kbs but this is not accepted in the community. Im doing this for about 2 weeks when finally someone founds out its me all the time. He confronts the community about me not following the HP's Ethics and gives me a "bad reputation".

Possible consequences:

1) Everybody decides Im too dangerous to mess with and leaves me alone.
2) People dont wanna waste their time and perhaps even think that this rule in the HP's Ethics should be changed (voting restarted).
3) Group(s) or individual(s) responds furiously and says that he/they will take actions against this person when he does not stop doing it and perhaps even he is "forced" to start disinfecting.
4) One of the big groups in HP (SGP, TNW, EOD, ...) take this person under their wings since its a friend and threatens anyone who dares to even touch him.
5) ...

So.. You could have situations where the community could be against a certain group because they're not following a certain rule in the HP's Ethics and some people give that group a bad connotation while others love the group even more.

Its a bit like SGP: You disinfect a virii on their server? Go ahead.. You can do what you want.. Right? Not really, since they will respond with force to this action. Its not like they've written some sort of HP Law by saying what you can / cant do with their servers, they've just explained to you how they will react when you do this. Polite of them? I believe so yes.. School kiddie crap like Demonic said? Perhaps also a bit yes but if they would have just kept their mouth shut and we would have heard it from a "victim" we would have known it aswell.

Another example: A while ago someone started capturing my virii. I knew a lot of top players hate this Virus Breaker playstyle so I contacted one of them and he responds very politely and helps me out. Why? According to him it should be allowed to do it but you should realise that it can have severe consequences.

Sorry for my very long post which is perhaps not even interesting anymore to read but Im just trying to do my best here and explain it the best I could.  Its not easy to write down ideas as clear as possible when your mother language isnt english.

Grts

[virus man]

The root problem with this though is purely human nature.  It is human nature to be avarice.

Is SGP free from this affliction?  Most yes some no.

Ethics are good though as long as they are followed, but as the game currently stands, there is no way to enforce it.  With "God Mode", and other game breaking features it really makes it very difficult to say the least.

Lets take the new guy in the top 10, rictys.   He bought his way into the top 10.  There is no other way to have done it especially to go up as much as he did instantly.  Well unless he hacked the game but I will not accuse him of that until such time as Sir Emi has looked into it.  He has a firewall that only 2 people in the game had prior to him showing up.  And neither myself nor the other person concerned have given him the firewall.  I have checked my logs and there have been no downloads and only 1 curious log entry from an IP that is being investigated. So that means either A> you spent at least 100$ just for the software not to mention the hardware to run it and the scan blocker or B> He hacked the game.

With the basic formula that was posted by Tiak on the Power Ranking.  He had to of spent around $35,000 to get up to where he is as quickly as he did.  There is no other way.  Yes $35,000 would put you at around his power rank score.

The 3rd place firewall alone would give you around 5 million on your Power Ranking.

Are these options allowed by the developer in the game?  Yes
Does SGP agree with these options?  In the manner currently implemented NO.

Does the Developer see these options as ethical?  Yes or else he would have heeded the warnings given to him by SGP and MANY others to revise them.

[Andreas]

Two thirds of your post just about Ricty. There is another topic for that. Use it and dont cry here.

I dont think this is going to happen. Everyone have their own definition of whats acceptable or not. The best would be these allready existing groups which informs the rest of the players whats acceptable for them or not. However the groups are overreacting or not caring enough and none of them cares about nonmembers. I could try to create another group but I dont think its going to help since all the higher players allready have their own groups.

[Donn]

@ virus man.

I believe you take my idea too serious. Its not my idea to create real HP Ethics and somehow "force" people that they should live by it.

Its like putting spyware / sniffer deamons on public servers. Its not done imho (in my humble opinion) and people who do it, get punished by others who are willing to make time for it.

Its like the CARL project. To make sure the people who dont follow these ethics, put up by community, get irritated and in the end stop doing what they're doing.

And yes, Ip change is blocking this idea. But its not really bout vengeance and destroying servers because the person thought something different than the community. Personally, I'd also want to see a punishment for every act, decided by the community. If someone starts destroying a server while the community said a small punishment (stop all downloads / uploads), the person who thought he was doing the right thing, should be made clear this is not the way it should be.

Like its not right to let police men decide on their own what to do with the person who did something wrong sort of speak.

I just would like to see this community build up a bit more. SGP made this sort of variety in the game by claiming a part of the secret servers. They made people happy and sad at the same time. Happy: some people their virii on other secret servers are more left alone. Sad: Other groups will not be told what to do and will harass the claimed servers.

By setting up some sort of ethics we are getting to know eachother better by discussing why we vote this or that. We are making clear to new players that some things arent appreciated but ofcourse are in the game so its their choice how they play. Like I said, this already exists, check CARL project. Its not nice to harass newbie people so we disinfect them if they ask our help.

Grts

[Magna Carta]

What you're talking about here are not ethics, but morality.

From what I understand, you'd like to set up a legislative system to decide on a set of morals, and the appropriate punishment for breaking one of these rules. In other words, create a government where there is neither need nor utility to it (there never is, but that's only my opinion). I can't say I'm too thrilled about the idea.

There is no real need for hard and fast rules, imposed from above. The fact is, if one installs spyware, disinfects and replaces virii, or uses a virus breaker, one is effectively stealing, and can expect at least retaliation in kind or degree. Retributive justice is what it is, aka "lex talionis", and, though most nowadays see it as barbaric, I can't say I find any problem with it.

[Theraze]

Part of this is irrelevant... regarding installing virii on newbies, you can only do it anyways if they're officially inactive... if they log back in (and continue to log in every 7 days), you can't do it. At their level, a format is quick and shouldn't lose too much...

[Andreas]

But I think the mainreason for all the abandoned accounts is just that someone have been succesful installing an adware. Most people just give up in that situation.

[virus man]

Two thirds of your post just about Ricty. There is another topic for that. Use it and dont cry here.

I dont think this is going to happen. Everyone have their own definition of whats acceptable or not. The best would be these allready existing groups which informs the rest of the players whats acceptable for them or not. However the groups are overreacting or not caring enough and none of them cares about nonmembers. I could try to create another group but I dont think its going to help since all the higher players allready have their own groups.

It was an example.  If you don't like it then get out. Otherwise keep your comments to yourself.

[Theraze]

But I think the mainreason for all the abandoned accounts is just that someone have been succesful installing an adware. Most people just give up in that situation.

Now? No.

And talking about the ethics of the way the game used to be a month ago back when it was possible is irrelevant, when this topic was started now, after newbie protection is in. If you've logged into your computer in the past week, and you haven't surpassed the newbie safety levels (which the quitting newbies won't have), you're safe.

Most of the newbies that quit do it not because of adware installed on their computers, but because of not understanding the system, and trying to download too many large files at once... once they've tried to download more than one file, and they check and see that it will take over 400 hours to finish, that's when they quit...

[HJ®]

That and just about every mission over 5 HPD gets finished before you, or someone hacks you and stops your processes.

It takes about a day just to get ONE hardware upgrade when you first start. I nearly quit in those early stages just because it's THAT slow.

Arthur Dent is retarded. Ignore him.

Don't you think for a second that some people could register, decide they don't like the game and quit?

[Moen Co.]

That and just about every mission over 5 HPD gets finished before you, or someone hacks you and stops your processes.

It takes about a day just to get ONE hardware upgrade when you first start. I nearly quit in those early stages just because it's THAT slow.

Arthur Dent is retarded. Ignore him.

Don't you think for a second that some people could register, decide they don't like the game and quit?

Excellent point. I actually invited one of my friends to come try the game, and he quit even though I was helping him step by step (this was before Lisa). It simply takes a certain kind of person to play and enjoy this game.

Back on topic, who are any of us to impose "guidelines" on what people should and shouldn't do? I myself am greatly against any kind of "babying" for the newbies. If groups want to publicly announce their stance on certain techniques in the game, fine. Nobody really cares all that much. If skilled players want to use them, they will, and they'll get away with it with the system as is. The unskilled players, they'll still use them, but they won't get away with it as much.

Bottom line, it's a game, who are you to tell people how they should play?