The Hacker Project - a free online game

These are the updates for the new round. Mostly PvP / balance related updates.

- delete / modify / recover log: 2 AP

- buy new server, double the cost for each new server (exponential increase)
- increased delete mission rewards by 30%
- new secret servers total numbers can not exceed 200 with the game progress
- if secret servers count reach 200, instead of spawning new servers, the existing server get increased hardware / protection updates with the game progress
- version increase to NPC server with each new server / upgrade is by 0.5 version. Note: On an update the server hardware is updated with the new hardware. If the server has been hit by malware and values are starting values, the server still gets full benefit of a new server with new hardware as the corps upgrade it again. The old hardware is simply removed and replaced with better hardware.
- when the NPC server upgrades hardware / protection, it will also change password.

Research diminishing formulae for next round:

For each V 1 in version, decrease research efficiency by 0.0005 up to minimum of 0.001 increase / hour.

Examples:
Res a V 1.0 for 100 hours => V 1.55
Res a V 2.0 for 100 hours => V 2.5
Res a V 5.0 for 100 hours => V 5.35
Res a V 10.0 for 100 hours => V 10.1

This means the research gets diminishing returns for each hour until it reaches V10.
At V10 research only gets 0.001 version per hour.

Are you serious? Do you remember how bad a response you got from putting a AP cost on deleting files and the virii counter? If you're going to do this you may as well put an AP cost on delete missions as well, why not even an AP cost on accepting missions in general? You can't place an AP cost on one main form of HPD generation and not on all the others without completely killing the balance.

Also, are you aware of m1sf1t and what he's said he's done? Let me refer you to the thread.

http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=279.msg13564#msg13564


How does this update do anything about this? It makes this kind of behavior even more appealing.

Can you at least double the maximum AP?

I second HJ's suggestion!!

Yes, that would at least leave us one hand free... or a couple fingers...

I agree with the increase of AP maximums. I also like that you are working toward PVP updates.

The doubling of server price is a little overboard. It should be x1.5 in my opinion. Otherwise, good job Emi.

Great, now I can't do anything, please, no AP on collecting or changing logs!

Now how am I supposed to rickroll every server I hack?

perfect example of why it's important to not have AP on logs, screwing with someone's server and having a good time doing it!

I suppose it was aimed at the chat servers where players could talk for a limited amount of time without revealing their identities.

The collect vir AP cost will not be added.

Delete / Modify / Recover cost of 2 AP still stands.

is there any real reson to add ap restraints to logs? I mean, as you go up in the game, pvp becomes almost none-existant already, so when you get up there, what is the point in even hacking anyone anymore?

I think secret servers maxing out at 200 is going to be killer....... With alot of people playing and only 200 servers finding a farm will be intense....

At the moment Im finding empty servers with 800 kbs so.. The amount of secret servers is way too high at the moment.

Ive used to upgrade my farm all the time but since Im finding LOTS of empty secret servers with at least 500 kbs..

Perhaps its best that 200 is the maximum. More PVP.

AP cost on delete/recover/modify logs? No comment. I like the case that there'll be only 200 secret servers, though. I also would like to ask you to at least double the maximum AP.

Regarding the AP change to logs.  I would say only on REMOTE server logs.  Don't charge the AP for doing the logs on your own server.

With the change to Secret Servers, I would suggest also having them do an IP change.  After all if an admin were to go and update a server and find that it has been hacked they would change the IP address on top of the upgrades.

Delete mission rewards increase.  I would not add that in.  It will not do anything towards PVP and only allow people to achieve higher levels in the game faster.

With regards to all the requests to double max AP I would instead increase the rate at which you regain AP to fix the real issue of there being little to do.  After all increasing max AP by 100% will not allow you to do anymore in the game than you do now.  However increasing AP generation by 50% or 100% will allow you do to considerably more in the game.  So as you can see increasing max AP 100% to "increase what you can do in the game" is plain stupid.

With regards to Faith and Revelations.  These are suggestions I made to you a LONG time ago Titam but since that PM was ignored I am going to post it here.

1> Allow Faith and Revelations to be killed.  AP Cost for it should be 50% of what Revelations would cost to install.
2> Decrease AP usage of Revelations along with install and disinfect times.  Right now .8 roughly is all that is needed to end the game.  By doing the above you allow higher versions to then be useful.  If you want the exact numbers I will get them for you.
The current top version takes approx 33.6 minutes per GB to install.  (272.5 minutes / 490.4 = .56 <rounded up> * 60 = 33.6 minutes)  If you were to cut that in half or even more then it would allow a real war between Pro-Rev and Pro-Faith players.  As is the current setup is a joke as has been proven.
You can keep the AP cost the same just reduce the times.

Actually fix Research instead of doing ineffective patches to it.  It should be harder and harder to research higher and higher levels of software.  Right now it is not.  All it takes is the hardware.  So how do you fix this?  As was suggested over 3 months ago.  Decreasing returns.
At the current rate of research the version increases .006 per hour no matter what the level is.  Have it so that at some divisible of say 10 the amount gained from research is reduced by 10%.
That would have versions go as such.
.1 - 1.0 = .006 per hour
1.1 - 2.0 = .0054 per hour
2.1 - 3.0 = .00486 per hour
3.1 - 4.0 = .004374 per hour
and so forth.  Heck you can even decrease the intervals between the drop in games.

That is what should be done to TRULY limit research.

Now to fix hardware
Your one fix for servers is not bad.  However I would say a X1.2 increase instead of X2.0 increase per server bought.
Now we just need to limit the amount of hardware bought on each server.  I would say increase the cost by X1.2 every time the stats double.
Example
550 MHz CPU to start
going from 550 - 1100 = 1,500 HPD
1100 - 2200 = 3,960 HPD
2200 - 4400 = 9,504 HPD
and so forth

Again this is to limit growth in a feasible manner.

What are your thoughts Titam?

Very good post Ebolla.

Emi, answer it mate!

Great suggestions Ebolla.

I will implement your diminishing research idea.
There will not be an AP cost for changing localhost logs.

I think hardware upgrades are fine for the moment.
AP replenish time is also fine for the moment.

Only time will tell. Hopefully, with the increase in PvP we can also release the Factions Update where you gang up with a corporation and fight the other gangs from the other corps  :laugh:

Why not release it now since that in of itself will push PvP to the masses as well as encourage it with everyone in a fun and enjoyable manner.

My reasoning behind the Hardware costs increases is because right now on my alt can literally do an upgrade right now of 9999 in each catagory and still have HPD leftover.   Mind you I haven't played him in about 10 days but still 10 days income from his farms and he would still have about 6.5 mil HPD left over.  (Granted I used him to get the times on the Revelation 2.452 install so I spent about 4.5-5mil buying a server just for that)

Hope that clarifies the reasoning behind the suggested changes on the hardware.

And last but not least.  Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to the requests.  I really do appreciate it.

One question: If the majority of the players agree that AP costs are wrong, maximum AP is wrong and AP regeneration is wrong, why do we keep being told it is right? We are the ones who play the game.

There is a severe problem with AP, especially now with the cost to modify logs. We are being limited in play and we all know better, this is not the intention. I also think the disinfect times for Faith should be a bit lower. Right now it takes less than a week's worth of research to research an unstoppable Rev bomb. How long is the round going to last after the reset? Is it even going to be worth playing?

There will be some changes to the Rev / Faith, once the new round starts and I can implement the updates, I will make sure the Rev gets rebalanced. That includes Rev / Faith can not be stolen by the software dealer, and other balancing issues.

As for the AP issue, I have something else in mind. Missions that reward in AP. They will require more skill and and will have a chance to drop items / interfaces to increase AP. This will be in the factions update I think...

Okay. I am putting my faith in you, SirEmi.

If nothing else, I'm sticking around to see what direction the game goes. A lot of the potential additions to the game will really flesh it out and make it more interesting. I'm still a fan of a persistent server, however, but as long as the rounds aren't too short I can deal with it.  :16:

Research diminishing formulae for next round:

For each V 1 in version, decrease research efficiency by 0.0005 up to minimum of 0.001 increase / hour.

Examples:
Res a V 1.0 for 100 hours => V 1.55
Res a V 2.0 for 100 hours => V 2.5
Res a V 5.0 for 100 hours => V 5.35
Res a V 10.0 for 100 hours => V 10.1

This means the research gets diminishing returns for each hour until it reaches V10.
At V10 research only gets 0.001 version per hour.

And that is the cap, correct? :)

Im looking forward to the reward in AP. AP is the only thing right now i hate about this game.

Because i played this game in the beginning was AP seemed to be unrealistic to get to 0 but now its nearly impossible to have above 100.

I want to know how an item in this can give you a different ap regarge and still fit in the game...

new item, expresso maker, keeps your coffie hot to keep you awake, +.1/m for ap regen........

lol

The new round updates described in the first post are now in place.

You can test them in prep for the new round.

God Speed!

I'm thinking special algorithm programs. You get them as special rewards from special missions, and they can be used to increase your AP by a fixed amount. There is also a possibility to create some kind of system where you are able to mix / match algorithms in order to increase a file version or do all sorts of other things with it...

Like that idear lol. Since AP in no way can be set to something IRL unless of course you think about your power supply then that is the best idear I have seen.  ^^

Related to the data file idea? Excellent.  :5:

I'd like to raise a rather important suggestion:
Now that HPD is becoming harder to get, AP is being somewhat limited, hardware is becoming harder to earn, and research is getting diminishing returns,
I think it's time to start thinking *again* about shared servers, the major bonuses being in research.
I think that it will encourage teamplay, and help research along.
now, if research is SUPPOSED to be slower and more tedious now (which could be a good idea!), then by all means, please ignore the statement and tell me.  :)
Now, if it's not supposed to be TO hard to research, I think shared servers would do well to help it move along, and for once, (heheh) we could 'group research' something effectively, which would be a great incentive to be in a group.

I think it could work like this:
A is in a group with B and C.
A offers a shared server with B.
B gets a message saying something along the lines of:
'A has proposed a Shared Server, for X (HPD) you can accept'
B hits the conveniently placed 'accept' button at the end of the letter and pays X (increasing server costs now, so it's not 10k. :D )
they both pay 50-55% of the price (yes, up to 110% of the orginal price, if for some reason that needs be.)
Then, since C is also in the group, B invites him, he pays 50-55% (or w/e) and joins.

[Now, with 3 people sinking money into ONE server, you need restrictions, I suggest that hardware costs slightly more to buy for anyone part of the server, or research could cost more or something]

A decides to leave the group, and so, clicks 'abandon ownership'
now, B and C run it.

Extras: Localhosts could be distincted as
idea1: LocalHost: person who proposed server
Admin1Localhost1: Accepted the server
Admin2/Localhost2: third owner
etc. etc.
idea2: For each person with ownership,  prices could be increased by a certain percentage: ?%
Idea3: groups of 3 or more could choose to vote off a disruptive  member.

what do you think?

^^ For a second I thought this might be the solution to the HDD overload problem, but wait a minute .... how are we supposed to upload/install malware if HDD is full ?

Guess there's really nothing we can do except waiting for delete missions to finish ...

The people who are doing missions now (bots and non-bots) have another advantage..

=> Before completing the delete process, make sure you have a File Share ready to complete download/ get installed.

There are only 200 secret servers (but they are upgraded so overall available Kbs will be even higher than last round I think..) and a lot of servers have too small HDD at the moment to even put Virii on.

If there would be enough active players.. A nice PvP war could get started but now its just divided among 4 or 5 players.. (actually only 2)

Pvp wars are also stimulated by the fact that its so hard to research high protection software and so easy to overload those breaker softwares with the help of your hardware..

(on their own) Protection 0 - 1 Breakers (and Hardware)..

Easy to hack everyone so power to the Log Deleter and Undeleter! All hail the Log Software!

At the moment I don't see a lot of people researching the breakers but mass researching Protection and Log software.

Due to the low activity of HP, the active players barely have any AP left..

All those missions, all those secret servers waiting to be filled with Virii, all those private servers hackable.. Insane..

People think its a boring round but the gameplay has totally changed since last round..

You have the people who research in attempt to be unhackable and people who are just waiting for the researchers to finish..

Even if you have the highest Log Deleter: 1 day you'll make a mistake and they'll know.. New strategies (for me they're new anyway..) have been found to set up traps to get the IP's of the "Untouchables"..

Its too bad for the new players and also for veteran players like me, who missed the early days of HP, that we didn't get the chance to play the game like the core players did in round 1.. Guys like Ebolla and Sovietpride and HJ and..

Before round 2 started, I read those early posts again and it looked so exciting.. Too bad..   :10:

just a question to that post. Why would anyone in their good mind use public server to upload a virii for money? Sure, you can gate few k HPD, but eventually in few days server will either:
a) have a mission to delete that virii
b) have someone who will just delete or break it because he/she can
c) have an IP change (sir Emi announced that) and you will loose that virii.

Right now farms are much more efficient. You just have to spend few days investing all you get from virii upgrading that farm and installing more virii :) That doesn't bring points but in a month - you are full of HPD every day.

Everything else - I agree with what you posted, Donn.

lpJ.

No comment  :laugh:

i think this update were brought this game more closer to reality. It was obvious that on reality when workers on a server detect virii they`ll take some measures to stop them and to stop hackers. It`s a cool idea improving fw protect and pw protect, and ip change... it's a measure of that company to protect their servers from hackers.
I think i`m not the only one who thought that this game became to boring. I found secret servers which were worst than a beginner's server due malware bombs.
To get more closer to reality, it should be cost ap any mission which weren`t asked by provider(true soft light) to cost ap. And completing missions for true soft light to provide some ap(small amounts, or direct proportional with the difficulty of that mission). In game your server connection to internet is hosted by True Soft light, and doing traffic on will actually make them spend their resources, that`s why is existing AP to stop a player abuse by true soft light free services.
I`m totally agree with Sir Emi with his updates

And last update wish that hash code which isn`t require for a player to introduce a code when it`s expire is awesome. This is the first game from all i`ve played which doesn`t require to its player to introduce a code, or clicking on a image as an antibot system. Jus clicking on game butons automatly send that hash code to server.

Problem now is that you just can not complete some of higher paying missions. Servers resets every 160 hours (+-30 hours), while deleting a v13 decryptor takes much, much, much longer. And after reset your mission just vanished ... gone ... without a trace. Now you see it in your task list, now you don't.

Most of those servers are just existing. Almost no one is using them anymore - they have only one task on them - server reset.
Most of players won't even search and break those servers as it is fruitless - you loose AP for nothing - perhaps you will find a good software on them, most likely not. And if you can't do anything on that server (remember - uploading takes time and time is running out with server reset) - why bother doing any PvP on servers?

Well - at least there is more PvP on gateways now. People hack eachother for software, farms and such. But if that is the whole point - let's just cancel all the public servers and have only gateways. Don't forget to change game description then, though ...

lpJ.

Secret server IP change has done more to kill PVP than help it, and it was looking so good with the decreased number of secret servers too...

Static secret servers means they are actually worth infecting/running missions on, if it's worth doing it'll be worth it for people to attack you and try to stop you because they want to do the same thing...

Seriously emi, I barely even play the game anymore because of this update... makes it feel like any progress I make except on my own farm and gateway is worthless because it's just gonna be erased in a week anyway...

I think the reason for this update was to let starting and/or lower ranking players have a bigger chance to find a place to install their own virii (without taking risks to desinfect or capture already taken servers first). From this point of view this is succesfull update.

On the other hand: I have to agree that the servers disappear to rapidly. There's no point at all to install virii on secret servers, not even for the lower ranking players (their uploads will take even longer due to lower bandwidth).
I hope Emi will do something about this. I would suggest a timer in the region of 500 hours (3 weeks).

Perhaps we should be splitting the difference and have half the secret servers be static and the other half be dynamic as in this update.

I think a 50-50 split would be good, so long as the change was a long time, the 3 weeks between changes sounds good to me. It could take a low level player a week to upload a virus and then they would have 2 weeks to get profit.

How about this, I don't know the breakup of Secret Servers as far as Truelight vs Corps, but the Corps SS IP's should be static, and the Truelight should jump around as if they are trying to stay hidden and keep the Corps from pinning them down.

In that case you could alter the owners of the servers so 1/3 to 1/2 of them will IP change and the rest stay static.

The moderators are aware of the problems that are caused by this update.

We are keeping a close eye on this topic, hoping that you will help eachother and perhaps find a good idea that could be/should be implemented.

Realize that your new moderators were ordered by Sir Emi, to tell him about anything that should be fixed / implemented urgently.

Feed us with your ideas and information. Please..

I don't know if this is urgent... But nobody can make money unless they have a farm...

i'd have to disagree slightly on this point

me and a friend both joined up together

he went the virii farm route - i went the missions route

granted i have to spend a lot more time "playing" than he does but i think i'm earning more money doing missions than he is doing farming.

do you make moren then 2-3 mil a day?

not yet but then neither does he, and i make more in 1 hour than he does with his farm

Ok well I started doing some research on this update so I could provide HARD data on how broken it really is based on what you posted Titam.

I did 20 1 hour researches and I completed each one individually to allow me to track the version increase.

Base file was a Log Deleter V0.1
At the end of 20 hours of research said file is
Log Deleter V0.218435

This equates out to roughly a pattern thus far that follows this. (There is 1 point where the decreased amount was less than others)
1 hour
.005950 increase which is suppose to be a .006 increase
20 hour
.005894 increase which comes out to roughly .000003 decreased amount research per hour over the previous hour.

I still have to do the same work on .2-.5 Log Deleter's to see just how screwed up it is but I will do those once I take the current Log Deleter up to V11 to verify the rest of your info Titam.

I really wish I didn't have to use my own AP and HPD to beta test your "features" especially being as I am a 60gb Gold member.  But such is the nature of this game.

I will come up with a calculator later on once I do enough testing.  It will be in Excel 2007 so those who are using older versions may not be able to use it depending on how large the equation ends up being.

Ebolla
Leader of SGP
Still the leader in finding bugs, tips, tricks, and exploits.