The Hacker Project - a free online game

It's starting to get annoying now, when you can't trace people who are dis-infecting or downloading your stuff because they changed their ip's.

I, for one, believe it or not cannot watch over my virii every hour or so.

In my opinion, rregardless of how you change your ip, the following should be dis-continued:

Downloads
Dis-infects
Deletes? not sure on this one.

IT might be game-play intentional, but it means they are beyond reprisal. if they pay 1000 hpd to keep their security, i want to pay 1000 hpd to keep my virii safe >.>

  I personally think changing IPs should kill all processes,including virii connections. Just make the current ones run without an owner until someone snags/disinfects it. Makes it less likely that the higher end players will just throw some easily gained HPD at a problem when they stand to lose all their moneymakers.

I don't.

I.e, since research/firewallprotect etc are wholly internal, i don't see how they would be affected.

I also don't support losing connection to all of your virii, since im assuming it acts on a sort of recognition code type system, where it doesnt matter where you are, you can access them as long as you have the right login as it were.

  I would imagine in the case of virii however,that it would report information back to a certain address.If that address changes,it wouldnt know where to send the information,and store it until it was able to(or had a different address to send it to). Honestly,taking away one side of the spectrum (disinfects) without doing the same for the other side (virii),unbalances the situation even more. If you want 100% protection,you should have to watch it 100% of the time-No one should be invulnerable,as it were. You cant seriously be complaining after all the stuff Ive seen across so many servers-roughly 6 people have almost locked down almost 50 servers (by my count),and its only getting worse. Instead of worrying about the couple virii you can easily get back,we should all concentrate on the real problems at hand-No increase in research costs despite income increase,and the ability to take missions against your own virii.

I have to disagree.

If I would, I could call my ISP and say to change my IP here. It 'll cost nothing.

Now, ask to keep virus running, just if it was a floo one, lol. Sorry, but I don't think so.

Modern viruses don't rely on a static IP server to be controlled. For example, the Storm botnet changes the server addresses so often that it's very hard to track down the owner of the botnet, using a method that I never really understood (check Wikipedia for details). So I don't see that you need static IPs for such stuff. Local processes should also be unaffected, on course.

Virus uploads should be stopped like all other active remote connections, so I don't see how disconnects on IP change are unbalancing in favor of virus users. People who upload and install virii still need to keep their IP for an extended period of time - they can only change it when they're done. People who disinfect or capture viruses can also change their IP after getting their job done. If you can change your IP and keep all connections up, that kind of defeats the purpose of logs and log software.

The only way to "trace" people with the current system is to hack people at random and see whether the process you're looking for is in their process list. This isn't a very sophisticated strategy, and I'd like real log tracing to be a viable strategy again. (It was in the first days of the game when no one could afford IP changes.)

If you're planning well, you can use bounces to protect yourself for at least multiple hours. I think the maximum number of bounces for non-gold players must be increased to at least 10 to compensate for this, so a tracing player must spend up to 10 hours cracking if you use well-protected nodes.

actually, i quite foolishlessly uploaded a virus (0.614 plz dont stop me) to a server and forgot to hide/delete. i didnt' realise the server didnt have enough cpu left to run it so..

there are several of those runnign around.

i've left several 1.5+'s out there too soemwhere o.o

Just kinda /signing the idea that changing the IP kills certain things, otherwise the game will lose appeal as everyone changes IP's during every big job.

Bah. I haven't changed my IP in at least a week.

nor have i, but then again im running uber l33t protection software so fruit that.

or if that is not possible just as ip changes can only happen once a week with formatting, make the ip change (bought) either:

1. A set many times per week it can be changed.
2. price increases each time it is used 1k->2k->4k->8k which is brought back down over time.

No, it should never be impossible to IP change; it exists for legitimate reasons. I mean, if someone is in my computer and they have better breaker software than I can counter, IP changing is the only way to get them out.

Ok reading this, this is what I get just to surmise for Sir Emi

IP Change should kill the following
File Transfers
File Activations(should this include delete,hide, AV, and encrypt since they are done remotely)
Virus Breakers (after all this is done remotely)


Is that how I understand it?  If so then I agree fully. 

 Of course you do.

And your post furthers the discussion how?

 1."Ok reading this, this is what I get just to surmise for Sir Emi" hardly constitutes "furthering the discussion",its a summary of what was already stated.
 2. Killing remote AV gives the virii slingers an easy advantage-heres how.
   
    I start disinfecting Mr. Xs virii,and he notices almost instantly. Using my 20 bounces to get there,I disconnect and wait for the timer. I could-a) wait for the timer and hope for the best,or b) change my IP and IN AN HOUR I could get away. In the meantime,Mr. X is on my trail-and for the sake of argument well say it takes him 3 minutes per bounce to read through the logs and go to the next node. I still havent made up my mind after an hour passes and Mr. X just showed on my logs. I still have the option to change password and IP,but at this point,theres no real need-Mr. X has killed the process already. If I would have changed IPs,and not spent the HOUR to deliberate it,I would have gotten away. Short version-take away the ability to maintain disinfect after an IP change,and the people who can sort through logs quickly will NEVER have a virii disinfected ( and thats not taking into account the numerous hours it takes to disinfect some things). Is this overpowered? Not if your near the top of the list and your buddies are watching your stuff,but for anyone else that wants to get anywhere,its a lesson in futility.
    References to real life examples are uneeded,as this is a gameplay issue,not a continuity debate.

   That "furthering the discussion"?

1> it was surmising and ensuring I understand the idea behind this which does further the conversation by removing misunderstandings as anyone knows.

2> IP change takes an hour to happen as you know already.   So your whole argument against the change is mute based on the scenario you just gave.

  The hour buffer time I refer to is the current prevention of misuse. It gives a solid hour of tracking time before the "nurse" drops off the radar. Does the time on the IP change need to be increased? Maybe. But how much time is enough to not unbalance other aspects?

  Some of the virii (even admitted by yourself) take DAYS to disinfect.

  Without the ability to maintain a disinfect after IP change,it gives virii slingers 72 hours to find their target. 3 entire days to rally your buddies and scour every IP to kill a process that takes 8 days to disinfect its target. Your honestly going to tell me this isnt in favor of people who overuse virii? And how would you suggest people do disinfect missions when you have no actual chance of getting away with it? I can track haphazardly through 20 bounces inbetween an hour and 2,accurately. If my target has to be there to keep the disinfect running,that only gives me 70 more hours to kill the process!
 
   Yeah,this isnt overpowered,lol.
 

It takes me less than 10 minutes unless I have to crack admin on any systems to track someone down.

IT is not over powered.

You have Log Delete.  If you don't research it then that is your problem.

You have Firewall Protect.  IF you don't stay on top of it then that is your problem.

You have Password Protect.  If you don't stay on top of it then that is your problem.

That is 3 ways with SOFTWARE to keep yourself safe.  IP Change should not be a way to avoid having to do the research on those software especially with how CHEAP IP change is in the current economy.

After all lets take a .1 File-Share virus disinfect.  You get 3.35K HPD for it.  IP Change still leaves you with a profit of 2.35K and ZERO risk.

With the way things are starting to go in this game it is going to be useless to do any research except for AV's.  Heck I could right now probably disinfect every .1 File-share at once and just change my IP making it impossible to track me.  Imagine how much of a RISK FREE profit I would make.

To say IP Change should stay the way it is now tells me straight up You are one of the ones abusing it.  It is far to powerful in it's current state.

Scour every IP to find a random one? Are you kidding? There are about 4.5 billion possible IP addresses. We're just supposed to "guess" the right one if someone starts stealing our viruses while we're asleep? Since people can easily check if you're online or not, it's not difficult to time your attack. Stealing a virus should be difficult, not a guarantee.

I've got to be honest, between this and the uselessness of hide (the fact that you can steal viruses you can't even see), I'm strongly considering finding another game. This game is too small to be losing players.

  You know what? Go ahead-You and your little clique can all sit around and be invulnerable,while all the potential paying new players get too frustrated trying to do anything and go elsewhere. I give up,and if this actually happens,I wont let the doorknob hit me where the dog shoulda bit me. Enjoy your stay at the top of a dying game.

Well, if Mr. X is capable of never sleeping and checking every one of his viruses on all servers every minute, he certainly deserves that much...

You know what.  Almost every person in my group including me are Gold members.   Gold status makes you untouchable as is.  You can NEVER lose your software as a Gold member.  Oh and just so you know that means a paying player.

Now as for the new players.  They quit because of people like you, after all you and a few others have bragged about this, finding them due to their mistakes as new players and hosing them.

I am trying to make the game better for all.   Not just the top and not just the bottom.   Sadly though all you can do is try to insult me when I posed actual facts to counter your argument.

So you have shown us that yes you are one of those who abuses this tactic.

  1. I am a Gold member-Your preaching to the choir there.
  2. Find one instance of me bragging about picking on new players-just one,anywhere-You wont.
  3."I am trying to make the game better for all"-Who is "all"? Wheres the poll? What gives you the ego to think you can speak for "all"?
  4. What insult?
  5. Im changing IP right now as a matter of fact-I do so almost every 4 days. Did I earn the cash to do it? Yeah,I did.Is that abusing the system? Thats up for another debate in itself.

The allure of this game is that's it's a game of skill and tact. If you remove both elements by allowing players to always steal viruses, the allure is gone and the game becomes pointless.

1> Then you know as well as I do that being a Gold Member pretty makes you immune to any software loss.
2> Here goes.
2a> Here you insult the player base by grouping them as "punk 12 year olds" as well as insulting Nose instead of providing constructive criticism.  http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=347.0
2b> Here you yet again insult someone within the game by "spending all your hpd to find some retards ip" http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=327.0
2c> Here you allude to picking on people http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=183.30
2d> Not going to keep searching as I have a long day tomorrow doing a vehicle recovery but I think I made my primary point.
3> Simple if someone who has the HPD via Donation or being in the game longer does the same thing to a reasonable new player how can they even bother trying to retaliate?
4> Your previous comment can be construed that way.  It sounded to me like you were basically saying "You know what?  You are an egomaniac that won't listen to anyone else."  Understand sometimes it is not what you say but what is insinuated..
5> That is good that you are changing your IP.  But did you do it when you started doing something like say a Virus Hijack or Disinfection?

Anyways peace out I am off to bed once I finish my rounds in game and here on the forums.  So catch you later and lets try to get back on topic shall we?

"They quit because of people like you, after all you and a few others have bragged about this, finding them due to their mistakes as new players and hosing them."
   
      My personal opinions of people doesnt excactly qualify as "picking on them". Your examples are merely my perceptions of others,not evidence of "finding them due to their mistakes as new players and hosing them". And I have no idea what example 2>c has to even do with the topic. At no point in time did I directly insult anyone. And no,Im not in the middle of any disinfect/hijack. Im closing up shop for good I think- Its supposed to be fun,but since their is no way to curb the growth rate of the higher end players without it sounding like a nursery,its just going to spiral out of control-And I said in one of my first posts here-
     "When there are no enemies,friends turn on each other"

    Time will tell.

I have no problems with IP changing as a whole, but as-is there is basically zero chance of you being found in that hour, let's say there are two IPs to be cracked obstructing the path, which is common enough for the people doing a lot of IP changes.  At 10 minutes each, and, let's say, 5 minutes combined for all other nodes that were bounced through, we come to a grand total of 25 minutes to find...  Then let us say another 20 minutes to crack the password of the IP-changer, bringing us to 45 minutes to cancel.  Let's say the one who did it wasn't that good at this IP changing bit and had a 15 minute delay after the offensive process started before he started an IP change...   This would mean that the player who is getting their stuff messed with would have to check at least every 30 minutes to ensure that they keep their stuff...  Checking every virus 48 times a day is impossible, making it rather futile.  In this case even if they do find the culprit, the only thing that does, is keep their stuff from being erased/stolen...  That is it.  The remaining part of that hour will never be enough to even temporarily damage the capabilities of the offender to steal more stuf.

The above of course makes a silly assumption...  It assumes that it takes an hour after an action to change an IP to begin with...  This is a stupid assumption.  There is nothing that keeps someone from queuing up IP changes before they take action, which is much more common, and is the real problem here.  If someone finishes a queued IP change immediately after starting an action, nobody can touch them, it is as simple as that.

That is invulnerability, just like having good software is, only this invulnerability takes little to no actual work to gain.  Humans play this game and realistically, they have neither the patience, nor the physical stamina, nor the available resources to sit on their asses all day and track every single one of their virii in this game.  If someone -does- have a particularly large amount of time to play here, this is further balanced by them tending to have more viruses to check and more other things to do here...

I propose a compromise of two simple changes to fix things a bit:
1.  Make IP changes take longer.  60 minutes is a rather short span of time compared to other actions in this game, and does not give anyone a reasonable chance of finding someone.  I propose that the new time be 2.5 hours.  This is long enough to conceivably track and crack someone in most conditions, but short enough that it is still impractical to consistently detect.  This also would make it less convenient to keep an IP change at ready before taking action in case #2 isn't adopted.
2.  Make it impossible to start -new- actions during an IP change.  Rather than kill processes when the change takes place, it would also work to make it so one is unable to start new deletions etc. while an IP change is already going...  This way people are actually limited by the time restrictions, whether the delay itself is increased or not.

Now if you want to disinfect or take over high-profile virii, you should have to make some effort.

1.) You could cooperate with other players and research a log deleter to stay hidden. After all, the people who research viruses must put their money into bandwidth, virus research and log undeleters, so even if you have only a fraction of their resources, you should be fine to become invisible by log deleting.

2.) You could also increase your firewall and PW protect instead. This may be harder because PW breakers can be overdriven, but you should be safe from the weaker virus users like me.

3.) Otherwise you could bounce through some nodes you prepared with a sniffer daemon so that your enemy has to crack every single admin on his way. Non-gold users should be given more bounces to allow this tactic - they need at least 10 bounces -  but you can gain up to one hour cracking time per node this way.

Hey, you can even combine all these strategies for dangerous jobs. Way more fun than clicking "disinfect" or "virus takeover" and become invincible behind an all-defeating IP change, right?

What I want to say is: The current way of changing IPs takes away the point of many of the nice features in the game, like bouncing, faking and tracing logs, protection software and strategic decisions about what to do to keep a low profile.


[Edit] I should add that I don't say this to defend my own turfs. I'm lacking in research - as a strategy decision - and can therefore be defeated easily by any of the above techniques. I use 0.1 viruses and 0.2 hiders, and my log undelete sucks just as bad. I just want the no-research tactics to be one option of many. If I choose to not invest in defenses, I should have to refrain from doing 1000+ HPD missions in order to compensate for the resources I saved.

One more thing to note: It's been said that this "feature" is in place to protect the smaller players... so they can occasionally get away with a disinfect or stealing a virus. Here's some quick math: stealing a v.55 virus takes 1650 CPU and 63250 memory. Fourteen of them were being stolen by the same person, at the same time. That means they were using 19800 CPU and 759000 memory at the same time, just on me. Smaller players have to drop their firewall and password just to run one... Who's really benefiting from this? Is it the smaller players? Clearly not. The players who already have impressive servers are using this to gain even more of an advantage. Those small players who only have half a dozen viruses up are losing those and don't have the system resources to steal them back.

Bah, am I the hardest worker on this game?

I only have half a dozen virii...

urgh

you CANNOT kill ip changes or gateway password changes.


@ crl, the point is, when you get to my level its far easier to just dis-infect virii on servers you want to fill with crap and plant your own.

After all, i would rather have my v1.5 adware out and about then caging some poor newbie's 0.1 adware. (for sake of the arguement)
Reason being that spyware come's into play (despite the fact i destroy it whenever i see them).

Why would i waste my system resources to cage some petty 3hpd an hour software when i could be flooding servers?

On the flip side, i could grab a high-level adware that only the high-level players have, change ip, and wait.

What do you know, under half a day, i get my ip change, and i get lots of hpd which doesn't belong to me.

Well, it makes sense that you can't kill IP changes, otherwise you could keep someone under your thumb forever. They have to have SOME escape route, and forcing them to format would be a trifle ridiculous.

The point is, and i'm sure at least 75% of players agree with me, The Virus Breaker either needs to be nixed, changed so that it's not overpowered, or a new software needs to be implemented to balance it.


- Have the Virus Breaker software show on remotehost when stealing virii? (It shows when virii are being uploaded/installed)
- Possibly a "Virus Firewall"? That way, your Virus Breaker would at least need to be higher as the V. Firewall to steal virii. you would have to run each application on each virus via remotehost...Upload + Install, same as virii. It would have to require high CPU/Mem, but low BW to be able to run virii + Firewall on lower BW servers.

...

possibilities now include:

1. Ip changes to be increased (not fair on other people)
2. Ip change means all external connections are severed. Deletes maybe, virii related definitely. (cept owned virii)
3. Protection software for virii to protect against breaker (currently no defence)

ehhh i forgot the others, but the breaker is so freeaing over pwoered atm ><

making IP change drop connections is the most true-to-life solution; that's why I'm so confused on why it doesn't do it already. If you've ever tried changing your IP in real life, all your connections die - downloads can be resumed with managers, but even those connections are definitely severed when the IP changes.

Once again, I agree with Crl. IP Change should kill all processes, breaker + AV included.

So, it seems like this issue is dead and we're all resigned to the "god mode" that is IP Change? Even with AP cost, the money you make from disinfecting even one higher virus far outpays any other actions that can be taken in the game. With no way to stop any process against you, what's the point of this game?

Okay, I'm with Crlaozwyn on this one. This is still a big issue, even if we all seem to have forgotten about it. I can't offer any fixes that haven't already been proposed (namely, changing IPs should kill external processes like uploads or disinfects), but honestly, it seems kind of ridiculous that I could start 5 simultaneous file share disinfects at 11 thousand HPD apiece, change my IP once for 1k, and sit tight for the next 48 hours in perfect safety.

I definately say there should be some sort of loss for changing IP, I thought the point was to be stealthy not hop IPs all the time. I'm in favor of increasing the time it takes to do and killing of processes.

Siremi, in case there's a doubt that players in general don't like the way IP change is currently being exploited, here is a list of people in THIS thread alone who have voiced their concerns:

sovietpride
Master Shake
XRay
Raistlin
Hatejacket
virus man
Crlaozwyn
Tiak
DrJones

9 people in this thread alone - more than prompted the change in AP. IP changing is a necessary tool to protect people from the continued assault of other hackers. BUT it should be a defensive tool and not an offensive one. As it stands, anyone (for a small fee of hpd and AP) can gain exponential returns without the possibility of being stopped. With the new AP system, disinfecting virii is the most viable way to make money, and IP change makes it pointless to install a virus at all unless you plan to disinfect it yourself. As it stands, every virus with a mission (80% according to you) will be disinfected. In fact, I'm finding that even virii WITHOUT missions are being disinfected because people don't take the time to check whether there's a mission.

To sum up:
THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT MUST BE FIXED

I didn't even think of that functionality for IP change... wow.

I'm on the bandwagon now... that is very, very broken.

my eyes o.o

i.p. change IS essentially god mode, that does need to be fixed...........

Ok Sir Emi - that brings the people who have voiced that they'd like this changed up to 11. How many do you need?

Bringing this to the top of the pile again - still dealing with this issue. What are you thinking, siremi?

Hey I say SGP start using this technique.

After all it seems that whatever SGP does Sir Emi does something to try and stop it.

So SGP start using God Mode please.

You mean you guys aren't already?

Nope.  We were taking the high road on this matter.  Heck some of the SGP members have the same IP since they started.

But here is a little trick.

[removed exploit description]

That is how I get Soviet's IP, Ivan's IP, and a few others at zero cost to myself.

Ivan's IP ........  :2:

Are there missions against me ?? And i thought i had been one of the good hackers so far.

I'd like to add to this debate that at this point the IP change is too much of an exploit.
I won't explain in detail how to, but there's tens of thousand of HPD to make in just 24 hours if you select the right missions and do an ip change.
There definitely needs to be a major setback to an ip change somehow. 1000 HPD just doesnt match up to the benefits it gives.

Might i suggest a 3 or 4 day (maybe even more?) period of waiting for your ISP to complete the IP change. In this period no outbound and inbound connection can be made.

And i'd also like to state that i'm on the desinfecting-side and although i could have, i have never used ip change to protect myself from being traced by the owner of the mission objective.
So feel free to come in and kill the corresponding process but plz don't touch my files and my other processes !

I am currently investigating what you described to see if it works or not.
It it does, then it will be treated as a bug and fixed.

[EDIT:]

The described exploit to acquire the new IP does NOT WORK.
It may have worked in the beginning of the game about 20 days ago, but that was fixed when several other bugs where fixed.
Once again, it does NOT work.

Please do not post false information, especially regarding exploits.


The number of IP changes has dramatically gone down due to the 300 AP cost.
There is no need to nerf it more at this time.

GAH! You realize that it's been nearly two weeks since I traced a remote disinfect trail back to a legit IP? That hasn't stopped. No offense intended, but I think you're the only person who doesn't acknowledge this as an issue. Do you actually play this game or just code it? I understand why you wouldn't play the game, it does make sense... but ultimately, you make money on this game because we're happy to be here and spend that money. If the unanimous cry is "this is a problem!" why are you so hesitant to fix it? The happier we are, the more money you get.

Siremi, I don't think looking at the number of IP changes is a valid measure of whether or not it is being abused. Instead, look at the number of powerful disinfects (Namely, those of .3 or .4 file share virii) that can actually be stopped. I'm guessing the number is less than 5%. I know that I, for one, change IP IMMEDIATELY anytime I initiate a disinfect worth 8k or more, and I specifically try to initiate as many as I can, then make myself untraceable. Since a file share .3 takes around 40 hours to disinfect, 300 AP isn't a high cost to pay. Are you seriously saying that isn't abusable?

I'm only saying the virus profits greatly outwage the risks of disinfecting + profits + IP Change.

You can try this:
- lose all your virii
- specialize your gateway in disinfecting
- fight against a group composed of the Top 6 players that will hunt you down every time they see a disinfect

You have to understand that I have to take both sides into consideration.

This topic has only replies from people that have their viruses disinfected, but there are those that specialize in disinfecting.

Now those that do that will not rely on viruses, and don't even have an income from viruses. They may not even like viruses, that probably why they are specializing in disinfection.

I understand that they are an annoyance for those that install viruses, but they are not a threat. They are simply using the tools provided for the purpose of fending off the gank of hackers that will surely come after them.

I can assure you, I am aware of everything that is happening in the game.

Siremi, I tried exactly what you said a while ago. That's how I got my start. I only started doing virii at all in the past few days, and even then, just to use the space of things I disinfected. I believe I may well have been the first to start abusing the IP change, and I'm one of those with the most to lose by it's change. I've got 30 or 40k of disinfect missions running safely, and that's my primary source of income. However, I really do think that the abusability of the IP change is bad for the game.

Very well said siremi. The way you put it, it makes sense.
Since i'm a desinfector i have no idea how much money the virii brings in.

And from my point of view it is a good thing that the strongest players are also confronted with some matters that they cannot control with their superior software.

Well, we have two options:

#1 - keep IP Change the way it is for now, while protecting the lower players and have a possible abuse on our hands

#2 - increase AP cost, opening the way for high players to grief lower players by:
       -> eliminate those that disinfect or reduce their damage on the virii to a minimum (causing them to leave HP)
       -> leaving high players open for exponential growth (causing newbie to leave HP due to no match for God)
       -> infecting all secret servers with high level virii (causing newbie to leave HP due to no room)
       -> not allowing others to grow

From the two options, the first was chosen as being the lesser evil.

That may change in the future, depending on how the game evolves.

Fair enough. I agree that it is the lesser of two evils, and I admit I can't offer a better solution. I just wanted to post to make sure that people knew it was still an issue, something that feels a trifle broken. I guess I'll keep an eye on the game, and suggest things as they occur to me ;)

We have more than those two options - you're just not willing to consider them. There is option #3, which is what this entire thread has been about - "changing ip's kills certain process's." You're convinced that this protects the "lower" players. Please, give me a profile of the "lower" players? What does their computer look like? How much money do they donate, and how many hours per day do they play? Feel free to leave it the way it is; I'm convinced that's what's going to happen anyways. But, for as long as this game manages to retain my interest (the time is decreasing quickly as issues such as this are labeled features. This is worse than Microsoft - "Those blue screens ensure that people reboot their computer, which is good for it!"), I'll argue for what I see as the good of the game.

If people can't always hide by changing their IP, will processes get shut down? Definitely. It's that balance that attracted me to this game in the first place - the fact that everything had a counter. Right now, I've legitimately gotten myself into a position of power - I worked hard for it. Regardless of the fact that I've played by every rule, the rules are constantly changing (and I believe they will KEEP changing until either the top 6 quit, or everyone else catches up). Every game has winners, and every game has losers. If everyone is a winner, then they're all losers too - we all started and fought on an equal playing field. I started later than anyone else in the top 10, and later than most in the top 30. I personally have excel spreadsheets that tell me, to the credit, where I'll be in 3 days, a week, and a month. Guess what? I'm almost exactly where I predicted I would be a month ago. How many of the "lower" players have the same predictive capabilities? How many of them have an exact plan that says where their research will be in a week, how many servers will be infected, and what's the best AP/hpd ratio? I'd warrant a guess that none of them do - that's why they're lower players. Is it a coincidence that I am where I am? No. Has IP change hurt me? A bit, but not much. IMO, is it a oversight that defeats the ENTIRE purpose of this game? Yes. Who will play a hacking game where you always get away with murder? Leave the game the way it is, and find out.

Option #4: Increase the minimum system requirements for IP Change. This shouldn't affect the "lower players" too much (How low can you go?), as a Format is a much easier option when you're a "lower player" and there's almost no need for an IP change when you're that low of a player, as you're under newbie protection. The only case is when you're disinfecting, and how many players under 1GhZ CPU will be disinfecting + IP changing? . Of course, this all depends what a lower player is. Anyone from #11 on?

Like it's been said before, we all started on even playing fields, why is the game easier for newer players and harder for us now?

This actually did work as of a few days ago.  So it was not false information.  As for it being an exploit, someone brought up that the IP did not change in the Anti-Hacker missions and you had supposidely fixed it according to this (http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=221.0) which is why I brought it up here.  You are welcome for the report on the factual information.

If I can be of any further help please let me know.

Alright, let me try again; currently, one player is disinfecting around 12 of my fileshare virii, worth a total of around 216K HPD. Those processes alone use 24K CPU and 960 megs of RAM. Is this a new or lower player? Obviously not. Fix the stupid bug already. It's not a feature, it's a flaw. It doesn't protect low players, it protects the guerilla tactics of medium-high players (and now that most of SGP is using it as well, the high players). These medium and high players can abuse the advantages of IP change with 50x as many processes running as the true low players (who can't afford to change IP anyways). For the life of me, I can't understand why you think this is a good thing.

ADD:
And before you say "But the AP cost balances it!" the total for this little skirmish is 1200AP - less than one day's AP - for over 200K HPD. Nice, isn't it? I wish I always got returns like that on my virii.

  Without the option,it just turns into a "who has the highest UnDeleter never loses virii". When you leave them without protection across a multitude of servers,what did you expect to happen? As it stands,anyone able to run the fileshare AV at .4 can kill those virii.

  The ability to research a log UnDeleter to ungodly levels is what keeps the IP change available. No one should be able to protect everthing they own by simply having a higher UnDeleter. And before you start on that overused "Get better software" schtick,keep in mind most people cant throw HPD at anything they want and get results.
 
  Why is it a good thing? Balance. Whos looming above you, waiting to exact revenge for doing a mission against their virii? No one,thats who. The fact the only thing the top players fear is someone getting away without "retribution" should be the answer in itself.

MasterShake, I heard that you quit.

Since you're commonly recognized as one of the top exploiters of this "feature," I'm not surprised that the IP change/disinfecting of my virii coincides with your return to the forums. Oh well.

With the option, it just turns into a "who starts the disinfect first." The fact is that they can't be protected by encryption or hide, so why waste AP?

No, siremi is what keeps IP change available. What's the point in a game where your software doesn't matter? It invalidates the entire point of this game. The way SGP got ahead was banding together - instead of complaining, maybe you should try to do the same thing?
 
It's not.
1 - the top players don't "fear" people getting away. This is a game. When an unrealistic, unbalancing "feature" is widely exploited, players who care about the game try to do something about it. 2 - What's the point of a game about hacking where you can't exact revenge when people screw with you? To enlist my help, I'm going to use *drumroll* the dictionary. What exactly, is justice? "the administering of deserved punishment or reward" Oh! Like when someone tries to take something from you, and you stop them? Nice. MS, I'd love to live in a world of your kind of justice - whoever fires the first bullet gets away with the murder.

Guys, stop fighting! Can't you see that you're tearing this family apart!?

Seriously, though. Crlao, Shake's not the only one eating your virii, and Shake, Crlao isn't arguing against IP change to protect his own interests. He thinks, and I agree, that perfect safety through IP changes is a trifle lame. However, I realize that it's better than some alternatives.

P.S. Crlao, I've been thinking about the whole "IP change kills processes" thing, and I've realized that it really would be bad for anyone who's not installing virii, because given 48 hours to track them down, they will NEVER get away with it. *Sigh* This is kinda frustrating.

*claws at Raistlin's throat* No I'm not!

I know Shake isn't the only one - hell, with the current system, everyone should be disinfecting virii. It's half less than as expensive as installing them, and gives you more money. And yes, the system could be worse than it is now.

Thank you for being thoughtful about this instead of just spewing knee-jerk reactions that suit your own best interests :) Maybe the solution is in somehow allowing people to speed up processes? 53 hours for a disinfect is too long. 240 hours for a delete process is way too long.

It's not just disinfects that are being abused, though I do see that most often - smart players switch IP with long deletes or even when hacking a powerful opponent because there's no repercussions. Some players with limited bandwidth even switch IP when uploading virii so the process won't be stopped. It's not just disinfects/virus break that's being abused - it's the very core of the game. Nothing has ANY repercussions because no one can ever find you. Without the ability to track an opponent, the game really is pointless.

But everything is balanced...  Who am I impersonating??  /lol

Look seriously.   People are even using IP Change now when they are installing virii much less that disinfecting them.  It is going both ways now.

I have been thinking of starting a topic on the SGP public forums about exploits permissable by Sir Emi.   And reading these forums is making me want to do it all the more.  Maybe when I get up and start cooking, I will work on it.   Because honestly, when I have brought forth items here they suddenly become exploits and I am told I am giving false information.

Let New World Order commence.

why don't you just make your own game based off of this as the reset one??? talk to emi, would solve your boredom on high ups end too.....

I doubt emi would give away the code behind the game, knowing full well that in doing so, he'd lose most of his higher up player base.

I would rather help Emi fix this game and make it a winner.

Honestly I was looking over the changes and I apologize but most of the changes made thus far are due to SGP.

So I figure if I put together a list of exploits that Emi says are game balancing and everyone starts using them then maybe just maybe Emi will see how unbalancing they really are.

I am just glad he is finally putting caps into place like I suggested.   Emi is a good guy.   I think though that when anyone in SGP makes a suggestion or crits one of his changes he thinks we are only looking after ourselves.

I mean up until I took the reigns off of SGP non of us where using God Mode.  Now I expect us all to use God Mode.

After AP went in I started changing my IP 1-3 times a day just to show how useless the AP idea is.  And I am still disinfecting far more than I am infecting.  In fact people who are on my claimed servers are quickly finding their Virii getting disinfected.

My opinion in this matter is that all noninternal processes are killed when IP is changing. EXEPT for virii. But the virii should have to be restablished by the installer and former owner only. This means that the guy with new IP have to expose it in order to have functional virii.

I disagree as when you go to collect it will be with the new IP anyways.   Spyware will show that new IP and will actually make Spyware useful.

I like that idea, maybe have Spyware collect only the new IP if it is a bit lower than the virii... so if you are at least (Virii Version * .9) then you get to see the collector's IP but fail to intercept the money.  I dunno something to flesh out Spyware and PvP a bit more.

  Instead of my usual psuedo-slander,I may have unintentionally stumbled across a potential solution (Although some people wont be happy until they see it removed entirely,which I dont agree with). When using an IP change,have it check to see what processes are currently running and multiply the AP cost/hardware need/HPD cost accordingly. This would limit the amount of processes any given gateway would be capable of running and still have the IP changed. On the low end-new players have few processes running when needing the IP change,and wouldnt effect the cost as much. On the high end-You would need to manage what you could actually run at the same time and still use the IP change,but overall would be able to run fewer disinfects/captures/etc.. Obviously this is one of those time consuming things,but it may have the potential to help alleviate this situation.

  Broadcasting Live from the Necropolis
  Master Shake

Elaborate please.

That is an excellent suggestion Master Shake.  I am impressed by it.

I would say that for each remote process running the price and resources should increase by 10%.  That right there would cut down greatly on the IP Changes.  My concern though is a simple loophole.
Buy a second server that can handle disinfect and IP Change.  And then do it with the least amount of cost to you.

Now if the price were increased by say the portion of the amount of mission payout that would be more feasible.   Disinfect a 10K mission and IP change costs 1K /300 AP + 25% of the mission payout which would equal 3500/375AP or something to that effect.

Again Master Shake this is by far the best suggestion I have heard you give.  You have my props.... for now /evilgrin

  Most new players need the IP change because of some other new player greiving them. The base cost for them would remain unchanged,as rarely they have many processes running anyways.
 
  For the high end players,this would translate into a higher cost overall,with fewer actual disinfects/captures due to the cost involved.
 
  Player Q has a mission thats gonna pay off big.Actually,he has a bunch of missions against the same server. For every disinfect/capture he has running when using the IP Change,the base cost increases by x?. Perhaps multiplied by version #,number of disinfect/capture processes running or some other number Im too lazy to think of. It needs work at best,but may scale the usage of the IP change to be appropriate with the capability of the user.

  Broadcasting Live from the Necropolis
  Master Shake

What about having a flat percentage or a logarithmic function of your power added to the IP change cost?  As far as I understand, since nobody but siremi has the actual power calculation formula, power is based on what files you own, and what version those files are. If that's the case, then this raises the cost for the mid/high players (and even more so for the players who multi-specialize, which would promote specialization and grouping IMHO)

I also realize that power grows exponentially once you get to the top, anyone can see that just by looking at the power board.  So that would call either for a reworked power calculation where higher version numbers add less to power, or something like that, more in the morning from me.

Sorry to shoot down an idea, Moen, but power is easily manipulated. If I have stuff backed up to a gold ftp, delete it off my comp, and redownload later, I can get around a large portion of that limitation. The only things I'd need to abuse it are my disinfector, and maybe an unhider.

Then why not have power also take into account all files stored on your Gold FTP as well? The general opinion on the boards has been that power is not a good indicator of how powerful a player is. Given two equal power players, one may have many different programs, but at lower levels, while the other may be a specialist who hasn't gotten around to getting the stuff he/she barely uses.

Still abusable. I could either A) hide things on a server that seldom sees use, which I admit is risky, or B) store my things on a friend's gateway until I'm done changing IPs. It'd take a while to transfer, but if I'm a high end player, I'll probably have a ton of bandwidth. I mean, soviet's got what, 8000 bandwidth or something?