The Hacker Project - a free online game

Please take note of Guide updates and the upcoming Revelation Day update.

The players will be in full control of the Revelation Day and they will decide when and how to start Revelation Day.

Note: This is _not_ the actual Revelation Day update, it is just the information / guides update on the upcoming update.

Added to ingame Guide:

Revelation Day
Revelation vs. Faith
Revelation virus technical details
Faith anti-virus technical details
Hall of Fame

Link to ingame Guide:
http://www.hacker-project.com/index.php?action=guide#a31

[update 26 aug]

Revelation Specs:

- Usage V 0.1: 10,000 CPU, 600,000 Kb Memory, 400 kbs Bandwidth, 20 Gb HDD
- nullify host defenses when installed
- can only be installed every 6h (global counter)
- visible across the network regardless if installed or not (exception un-installed on NPC server)
- requires above usage resources to activate / run (replaces 50 CPU activate cost with full cost regardless if activated on localhost or remotely. E.g. Requires a good gateway to even activate the virus. Resources are freed once the vir has been activated, on remote cases)
- can only install one Revelation on a unique host
- can not be encrypted / hidden
- can not be uploaded to Secure FTP
- if 24 hours DDAY countdown is in progress, no new Revelation virii can be installed until countdown is over. When countdown is over, the world is saved or doomed.
- if installed on NPC server, it does not trigger a disinfect mission

- enables remote overload damaging hardware of servers (50% the power of an overload bomb of same version)

Faith anti-virus specs:
- Usage V 0.1: 20,000 CPU, 1200,000 Kb Memory, 20 Gb HDD
-  disinfect time =~ activation time of Rev virus
-  disinfect process once started can not be stopped on the initiating server. It can only be stopped by initiator gateway. If remote disinfecting, the initiator can only stop the process on the remote system with the kill command (the process on localhost is locked).

[update]

others:
- added Action Points description to ingame guide
- added Virus Breaker description to ingame guide

Bah, I don't like this one bit. I was hoping for a game where there's at least an option for a persistent world, but now it looks like we're going to have any progress wiped every once in a while. Do you plan on making this a reoccurring event?


Can you elaborate on this? Does this allow you to destroy the hardware of a server you have admin access to if the virus is installed on your gateway? Does the six-hour limit apply globally or just to each player in the case that their Revelation virus is disinfected?

Potentially I could grow to like the update, but as it stands the whole reset idea is a sticking point.

Sir Emi what ever happened to your word that this world would stay persistant and that you would create "alternate worlds" that would experience resets?

I ask because I know MANY people have donated.  If you allow this world to be nuked then you are taking away the benefit of donating unless you plan on allowing those who have donated to pay back the HPD at the SAME RATE they got it and change it to increasing the Gold FTP server size.

Otherwise you are telling those who have donated to piss off effectively.

Specifically This Thread (http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=404.0) where you state,
If you look at Space Odyssey you will see we have both a persistent world and one with resets, so yeah we will have both in HP too.

The reset will be kind of cool, like a bang where everything blows up and with prizes at the end, and after it's done the whole world blows up and it's rebuild again like a Doom's Day.

Im so glad I asked that question lol.

Are there any plans to keep a persistent version of HP? It doesnt look like it at the moment;

"
The aftermath of Revelation will provide a new starting ground for newbie and veteran players alike. The Hall of Fame will be updated with the best players and their greatest version of software. All gateway software, backups, hardware, resources will reset and a new round will begin from the ashes of the old world. You will not lose your account status / user, only the resources are reset. New players will have the chance to rise up and claim the top.
"

Im sure its possible to create a persistent version even with this revelation thing, just with a few tweaks here and there. HP is not really a casual game, you have to put alot of time into it. For example, getting all 600 secret servers IP and then cracking them. I dont see myself wanting to do that everytime the game resets.

Any inputs on this matter?

If until 1th august Sir Emi don't make clear that he WON'T reset this actual world , i'll be quitting...

I am not looking for my achievments to be reseted like the crims or any other kind of stupid round-based game!

Sir Emi, I don't think anyone objects to this new update... it could be really cool actually. But don't make the mistake of implementing it on the current server after you've promised not to have rounds or resets. Going back on your word like that would set a dangerous precedent that no one wants. You'll lose the faith and trust of every player on this game, and you don't want that. If this is going to be added, ADD it in another server, not on this one.

This. I know we've got v100 Protects and such, but some of us (Myself at least) have BARELY tapped into the fun i predicted this game would be. I'll quit if this game resets. I'll play both if there are 2 servers. Call the Persistent server Faith and the New Server Revelation.

I really do not like the idea of resets, makes me think there is no reason to play if you are just going to sit there get up to a certain point, and than start all over again? if there was something more than just getting your name in the hall of fame I would like it though, also the two different server idea would be nice.

also, when it resets, does that mean your secure ftp dies also?

Hmm, am I missing something or are resets pretty much only going to happen by consensus?  Infected servers don't have defenses, so everyone can get in, and it only takes one person doing a disinfect every 6 hours (or more) to stave off the reset...

If so, I sort of like this.

I will do about the same. But Ill wait until the actual reset. When a reset have occured I will not play this game any further no matter what. Its not funny to lose whatever youve acomplished. I still havent been able to achive my own goal yet and I wouldnt be too glad to see that its not enough time to do it. And I wont start again even if there is a server without resets because Ive lost my account and dont want to get a new one. Im good enough to play with file share so there will be some job to create a new account as good or better then this.

However its a fasinating update which I would support to a maximum on a server dedicated to a round based version of this game. Now you havent told us on the ingame profile that its roundbased so Ill disagree on this one.

 I know for one thing, SGP will more than likely research Faith as high as we possibly can to stave off a reset.

I am with you there, if there is a link with all of the infected servers, I will be checking it at least 4 times a day.

I'll help you as much as I can. I don't care if I need to spend all my HPD in research.

I really don't see the reason, why you people are whining so much. There is
only a hand full of people to pull the dooms day and as it stands now, they
won't do it. They even can prevent it. d**n, if I did not miss some critical
point in the description, the dooms day will be the same day when hell freezes
(read: never).

ps. I'm tired of the dozen of people on the top complaining all the time. If
you don't like this game, then show off and let the rest of us play!

I'm not in top and I complain about some aspects of the game. If you don't like about the people who complain, then sow off and let the top complain all the time! ;)

I mean, everybody can say what they think... You can play, we can complain.

I totally agree with Krieger even if I usually dont complain much on the game. Im not in the top either but I can still complain about the game sometimes. Thats exactly what Im doing now so please dont talk before you know whos you talking to.

And most of the highest players have informed Sir Emi about something he wrote before this. That the game wont reset on this server. Maybe on other future servers but not on this one.

This are only some ideas I have around it, and will not be taken as they will be true:

Faith string cannot be deleted from name.
Faith is shown as part of process string on the processes page. Such as "Faith fighing revelation V xxxx [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx][owned]
Revelation can be deleted/hid/encript by other players.
Revelation cannot make coundown if is hid/encripted.
Revelation needs 24 hours to be installed, whatever its version is.
Revelation can be deleted while is in install process.
2 Faith AV processes can be funssioned in one with the remaining time lowered than the original process. Then they can be fussioned again, and again, and again....
Revelation disinfect takes 6 hours, whatever faith version is.

no.................. we're aiming to have a BIG overload bomb.............................. i kinda like the idea ^^, just make it so that there's a chance to last through the day 0.0, and also, the 1.0+ server idea makes it a bit ........... biased, on who can do it, but i understand why

1.0 + NPC servers are chump change to anyone who has played at least 1 week and made any progress.   Don't forget you can overload that server as well.

I like the idea of the revelation virus :)

Imagine if a group of 10 newbies get thier hands on it, it wil send the top ten players running,

I say bring this virus on :D

A group of 10 newbies wouldn't be able to use it, because you can't pool resources. Any of the top 10 players on the other hand could wipe out those newbies if they wanted to.... say for implying that they'd use it? ;)

As for people whining about us whining... There's a difference between a complaint and a constructive criticism. A complaint is a knee-jerk reaction that one is being treated unfairly, which offers no solution to the issue. A constructive criticism (what most of the experienced players do) says "I think this will be an issue, and here are a few ways I think it could be resolved." If you don't like the way MOST of the people on these forums talk, why don't YOU shove off? :) Otherwise, feel free to join us in trying to make this a better game. Thank you.

EDIT: fixed some grammar :p

And if Crl's response wasn't good enough, I'll let him bring the gun out.

When I think about this its really similar to a suggestion about worms. (Please look in it where ever it is. That was a good suggestion.) I was one of the people wanting it to happen but a reset was never mentioned during that discussion. Im glad to hear that Sir Emi listens to us but I dont like what he added to the idea.

I am going to add my voice to the crowd against a reset.


You led us to believe, whether intentionally or otherwise, that the game we were playing would be persistent. That what we did would last, and continue to serve us. And we are not satisfied by simply being in a Hall of Fame somewhere: Hall of Famers aren't making a difference any more.



I would be satisfied as long as we keep something after doomsday: perhaps we keep 1/10 of our upgrades, and our best secondary server (with 1/10 it's upgrades).

Yeah? Well, I wouldn't be satisfied with that. I mean, sure, it's something, but by the third reset or so, what you did back in the first iteration will be meaningless. And if it's a PERMANENT keep of that 10%, well, that'd be more satisfying, but would eventually completely destroy any sort of balance.

How about making it a special event.

When the event triggers, you have a choice of joining the Revelation side or Faith side, ( or neutral )

If the Revelation side manages to win, there will be a bonus to everyone who joined the Revelation side, and with a bigger bonus to those that successfully activate the virus. Also, there will be a penalty for people who joined Faith side, and reset the public and secret servers, wiping all the virus already installed. (there could be other things as well, like for example removing all inactive accounts that went inactive for more than a month)

Similarly, if the Faith manage to keep the virus at bay for a certain amount of time, a bonus will be given to everyone in the Faith side, with a bigger bonus to the top disinfectors. Likewise, a penalty is given to people in Revelation side.

Edit: added a few things.

I must say I have to echo the sentiment above.

Let me do just that:

Bah, I don't like this one bit. I was hoping for a game where there's at least an option for a persistent world.

Why?

Because it makes all the difference on how you play. I've already charted out the next six months of development - Yes all six months with milestones, key target researches etc. Everything to get me near to the top, and actually it's working even better than I expected.

Instead now I see this and I don't even know if I will have six months. Or three. Or twelve. What is even worse is that it is basically out of my hands. If I divert resources to researching "Faith" then I will fail in my original objectives. If I do not divert resources to research "Faith" then I may not have the time required to accomplish them.

I would have much much much preferred a means of attrition or technological obsolescence of software and/or hardware to limit growth and allow people to catch up to the top. Frankly I am left now with that bittersweet taste of "oh another game which I joined halfway through and which may reset before I get to where I want to. Or maybe it won't. Or whatever."

i'm afraid that this also gives people in groups a rather large advantage, and could we also possibly set the event to take place on the weekend (for rather obvious reasons)

i would to also know what the specs on the virus are, such as how much cpu/ram it will take, and additionally, the more i think about it the more i think players with servers that they can sacrifice will be in a much better position (ie crl, or soviet, or raistlin) so shouldn't it be impossible to install on your own server?

and also, this is supposed to be the persistent world (i hate to be on the bandwagon, but i'm going with it anyway) so there needs to be some limitations to the revelation virus.......... like a 1 hour minimum sitting time?

OK, maybe my tone of voice was a bit rude. I apologize for it. Did not
want to offend anyone.

As for the persistent world. Because the game has a linear development
tree (and exponential growth), there comes the point, when entering it
will be totally pointless for new players (i.e. they will never be able
to come close to the top players).

Cutting everything in 1/10 would be kind of pointless too, because the
overall power ratios would remain.

A reset is a possibility, although I must admit that the benefits of
being at the top are quite small for the revelation patch.

I don't really have an answer how to make this balanced. Still, what
I like about this game is, that it is supposed to aim at least at
semi-hacker attitude players. This means examining existing systems and
searching for the best possible way to achieve the target.

Maybe the solution would be to make some saner targets for the game then
just making level zillion+ software?

Well, I'll see how this will turn out. This is a game, and I'm here
trying to relax and have some fun. And that is exactly what I will do
one or the other way.

Well... i cannot speak for the rest of my group, but if this new scenario comes to light i will make it my personal mission (it would actually be good to have one!) to make sure that this "Dooms Day" never occurs, even if i have to track EVERY single one of the players holding the revelation virus. I say this for one reason:

- Quite a few of us have put WAY too much time into this game for all our efforts to be just thrown in the trash and have to start again from scratch, this game takes a lot of patience and effort, and this is in no way any kind of reward, and cannot even be called an 'upgrade'.

Do not get me wrong, i like the initial concept of the idea, but i think a 'total' reset of every player's hardware & software etc is a little too much, its basically taking away one player's (speaking of the high end players around the top 20+) weeks (or maybe months) of hard work and determination in one fell swoop, think about it, in a 'real' doomsday, one would go into hiding from the effects, and in doing so would retain all their affects and gains while having the world around them brought to a restart, so to speak. So maybe just making the reset affect only the NPC servers would be a better idea? After all, losing all ones installed virii and having to find and re-crack all the servers is not so much of a big deal, but would be more realistic imo.

I have to say this.  SGP will not allow "Dooms Day" to happen and will fully support any other group in the efforts of preventing it from happening.

That aside, there has to be some other way for the Hall of Fame.  After all hitting the Hall of Fame just to have all the hard work ripped away from you makes the HoF as useless as the top ranking is.

DamascuS's idea is one of the best I have seen thus far.   Have it destroy all of the NPC secret servers which would force all of us to reinfect servers and bring back the rat race of days gone past.

he has a point........ i for one have put over a month of on/off playing into the game, NOW! as it is this is just like AP, a LOT of players are probably going to quit because of this, i hope you understand this emi, just like when AP was introduced, this is NOT the best of ideas......... i think with some refinement that this could be a good idea (as i stated in an earlier post) we also have to take into account just what players can DO with it, it would take 60 hours (or 2 1/2 days) to get a chain of revelations going, now, for a player in the top 10, thats no big deal, they can shoot down 10 disinfects at once no problem, and also install on a couple of their own servers, this is a limitation that is placed on the lower players who have only 1 good, full strength server

so can this PLEASe be the premier of the 2nd server instead of a killer for the 1st!!!!

Hmmm. I like the idea of Revelation purging the public/secret servers; just a corollary to that: if they're all reset, to stop high level players getting the edge, perhaps there ought to be a universal IP change or something? That way, we really do have to go hunting through the logs again, just like in the good ol' days :P

And Noseedam, not to harsh on your post, but it shows a lack of thought and/or reading. Just for starters, higher level players COULD NOT install multiple copies of revelation; according to the guide, only one may be installed PER PLAYER, not server.

^^ I  agree with you about the ip changes. if that is what happens, than I would be very happy about this update.

0.o? that was per 6 hours........... ri?....................... well, i was putting idea out there, jus disregard it then

and yes, the i.p. change would be nice, and would make things much harder on this, but again, do this on THE NEW WORLD!!!!!!!! not the already established one

Note to all: I will personally be creating a server with public faith files and they will be researched 24/7.

Maybe there will be a persistent HP server in the future, I don't have an ETA at this time.

All I know is that Revelation vs. Faith will be implemented and Doom's Day device will be available. We've always intended HP to have the Doom's Day device, it just wasn't ready at the start of the game.

If we are to have a persistent world it would require a larger player base to start off at the same time, or else the first people to play it and get ahead would not have any competition at all. A persistent world requires a high player base starting at the same time to become the elites and train the others that will follow.

The Hacker Project is just starting and you can consider it still under heavy development. I can assure you all updates / changes are for the long term good of the game.

We are following our Terms of Service that state:
"Game updates.     
  The Hacker Project reserves the right to change any aspect of the game without prior warning. If you do not agree with the rules, please close this window and do not enter the game!"

God Speed!

P.S.: There will probably be prizes at the end of each round, payed out in HP partner $ credit. The credit can be used to get Gold, convert into resources or payed out with paypal.

yey, I like incentives...

One thing I like more than incentives are people who do what they say they will, and don't do what they say they won't. Oh well.

Sure. Most games also have it in the ToS that you can not trade in-game items for Earth money. It doesn't stop it.

We agreed that we were aware that you could change things without warning. You, however, gave us a means other than quitting to voice our opinions, and we are doing so. We are well aware that if you choose to go through with this, we may have to resort to that final option: to quit for good.


It goes both ways. It appears as if much of the community would rather not see this, and with several of the critical groups saying that they will kill Revelation at all costs, even if you do implement this, it may never happen.

Yes, we know it... The problem is that we don't expect a reset... And, if you read all the post, you know that more than 80% players would leave the game if you reset it. So, if that happens... There wont be a persistent world. You'll always get the same... People who left the game because they want to keep their progress.

It's just my opinion...

Do you think that losing the majority of the current player base will bring the end result of a larger playerbase? The fact that the pbase on this game is smaller doesn't mean you should neglect us, ignore our suggestions, and lie to us. When Blizzard does something like that with WoW, people don't have other options... there's only one WoW. Do you really believe you have the only online PHP game? There are literally thousands of other options, and there are options where people will actually be heard.

I do/did consider it under development... that was one of the benefits of the game! I was under the  impression that the players would be able to help direct the future of the game through our suggestions and ideas (which you've now made abundantly clear is not the case).

Tell me Sir Emi, how are donations doing since all these changes you've forced on us against our will? Have they skyrocketed and helped the game to grow? Or, have we stopped telling our friends about this game because of the developer who we feel ignores and abuses us? You may think you're doing this for the good of the game, but the game is a commodity; it's a product. Ultimately it doesn't matter how good the manufacturer believes his product to be, or even really how good it is... The only thing that matters is whether people want it. Do people want this game more because of your changes, or less? People will continue to use a product even after it ceases to meet their expectations, but only for a while. I think your time is running out... Even if people do play, 30 seconds in these forums will stop them from becoming a gold member or donating because they can see that this game doesn't have much of a future as things currently are.

I'm not suggesting that you undo every decision you've ever made against our wishes... Leave in virus break, even though it's never used and the most hated application in the game. Leave in the AP system, even though it does little, if anything, to stop the strong players from getting stronger... But have a bit of common sense, LOOK THROUGH THIS THREAD and don't implement something that NO ONE IN THE GAME EXCEPT YOU WANTS. I don't care if you wait until after my auction ends. And yes, your announcement has basically killed it. Even though I won't be playing in a few hours, I'd still like to believe that the people who have played this game haven't wasted their time and money. No one wants to be told "screw off" by the developer of a game they like, and that's effectively what you're telling us. Give us a clear sign, Emi... If you want us to quit, just tell us "I want to make a game that (only) I enjoy, so d**n all the feedback I'm getting, I'm implementing this." If you want to keep your game running and, by extension, not waste the hundreds of hours of coding you've invested, then step up and admit this may be a good thing to implement someday, but that we aren't ready for it. All it takes is saying "Alright, I still want to implement this, but we're going to hold off until we have a playerbase that's actually ready."

/endrant

EDIT:
One more thing to add - don't just ignore this post... it would be smarter of you to delete it if you don't intend to respond. That would prove once and for all that you don't care about any of your players or their opinions. Please, PLEASE respond, even if all you say is "I'll think about it" or "I don't agree with anything you've said." We need feedback, we need to feel like we're being heard.

^^ I saw that you said there is only one wow, than said that this is not the only php game... well, there are other mmo's, and there is only one hacker project.....

There is only one product that combines the same combination of a social network, expansive gameplay, continual updates, etc - and that is WoW. There may be only one game CALLED "The Hacker Project," but many other games deliver the same kind of gameplay and competitive nature. I know, because I've played many of them. The mechanics are different, the idea is the same and it plays exactly the same. How do you think I made it to number one, past people who play more than I do and started first? Do you WANT this game to die? Out of all my comments and things I said, you decide to nitpick and bring out one somewhat irrelevant point with a flawed argument? Deal with the meat of the issue before picking at the garnish.

All changes / updates are for the benefit of the game.
Persistent worlds are destined to get boring.

That said, we will consider a persistent server in the future.

We are not forcing the Revelation Day, it's entirely up to the players. They can choose to become the protectors of Doom's Day and guard against it or they can choose to bring Doom and start a new round. It's entirely up to the players to fight it out.

Thank you for responding to the general question of this thread.

How about answering some specific questions, like these:
Are donations up or down since you implemented VB/AP?
How will you continue to run a game that produces no income?
How will you continue to run a game that has no player base?
What is the point of creating a message board if we have no actual input? Just make ingame announcements instead.

from that last post siremi, I for some reason just realized how good of an update this is. in a lot of games when they make updates, either they do a player wipe where everyone has to start from scratch, or they just leave it and things get overly unbalanced because everyone already is at the top anyways. I think this is a great tool that will allow the player to choose if there is a player wipe when new things get implemented.  that is, if that is how you want it to be and it does wipe players too...

Regarding the player wipeout, we don't do things like that after Revelation Day.

"You will not lose your account status / user, only the resources are reset."

Your account will still be there with your #id and user, it just starts a new round and keeps all players that registered. They can then begin to upgrade and race to the top again. The #id / user you have remains and is a statement of the veteran status of a player, low #id usually means better / veteran player.

[Edited]

Vulgar and/or other publicly unacceptable topics will not be tolerated!

Nice signature. I think (color='red') should work better. Just switch the ()'s with []'s.

Anyway there isnt much left to say. Youve expressed most of the bigger players (and many other players. Like me.) feelings even though we shouldnt have called Emi a b*tch. I think almost all bigger players will leave after the reset. Several of them is ready to leave now even though its not sure if a reset would occure.

[Edited]

Vulgar and/or other publicly unacceptable topics will not be tolerated!

Since I wasnt really affected by the AP system I havent really got a reason to leave this game. But a good update would surely be good. Or so I thought.
What size do you use in your sig?

4

Well, is there really anything more left to say? Rather than quoting the obvious, i would just say, Sir Emi...Take a deep breath, make yourself a coffee or get a soda, whatever...Then just GO BACK TO PAGE 1 of this thread and re-read EVERYTHING (specifically the posts from both HJ and Crl, no offense to anyone else), you have been offered countless alternatives that all players would be more than willing to accept.

I seriously do believe a re-think of this idea is on order, are you really prepared to lose your playerbase over something as trivial as actually LISTENING to your customers, and why do i say 'customers', well because WE PAYED for the game!

'nuff said.

Hatejacket, you have violated the forum rules and the game TOS:

"The Hacker Project upholds high standards of moral behavior."

"Content and responsibility     
        The Hacker Project is visited by a great number of people. Posts and messages spreading racists, religious intolerance, vulgar and/or other publicly unacceptable topics will not be tolerated. They will lead to warnings and/or sanctions or the direct termination of accounts in question."

The forum sig used is also an abuse and vulgar way of expressing your opinion and it will NOT be tolerated!

I think I do not know the definition of vulgar than...

Here you go then:

So we can fight revelation day, but eventually some group of people could keep the viruses alive long enough to trigger the reset? It seems inevitable but it still means we could have a lot of gamplay left before the reset right? It'd mean someone would have to be fighting rebelation viruses a lot though  :10:

A reset in player hands means it will inevitably happen... There are over 600 secret servers, and no one as enough AP to crack all of them; it does make it more balanced and give it better story reason though. It'll be fun for you guys to try and stop it though... We'll see what the new owner of my account decides to do - I'm sure they'll want to maintain status quo.

I, for one, support the idea.  The theoretical reset of which we speak may never come to fruition.  It would appear that every single powerful group in the game is strongly opposed to the concept, which will guarantee that it will never happen...  unless and until all powerful players get bored with the game as it is, and voluntarily choose to reset.

So why worried?  Some notes, as I understand them:
1. Faith can easily disinfect Revelation
2. Revelation is easily located - it would appear to not only broadcast its location, it also deletes all defenses on the host.
3. Any player that so much as downloads Revelation will be immediately targetable, due to the unique broadcast feature, again.
4. At 6 hours per install, no parallel installs, one install per player, a day countdown, needed is a minimum of 10 players and half a week (3.5 days) of uncontested time.
5. Top players will be researching Faith and providing it freely to all.
6. "Faith anti-virus is faster then a normal anti-virus" - so it moves fast
etc.

So...  Who's worried?  You'd need 2.5 days to complete a basic infection, and if just one is disinfected at a time, another 6 hours are required.  After 2 and a half days of NOBODY actively stopping it, then begins the dangerous 24 hour countdown to doomsday...  Which only requires a maximum of 13 (10 base, +24 hours/6 hours per install... - we can safely ignore the last possible one to be installed at the moment of the explosion, as if there is still one left by that time it's too late anyway ;P) disinfections during that time period, which, by the way, is only after 2 and a half days where NOBODY did ANYTHING to stop it.

In short, downloading Revelation is like raising a big red flag over your server IP address....  Which is stupid for any but the highest players to do.  Even Crlaozwyn could then only install 1 (one) copy himself, and would need all of SGP to back him up.


For those who skim:
It's not going to happen.
Summary: It's so easy to stop, that it won't happen.



SirEmi - If I made any false assumptions, please correct me.  I am not asserting that your feature is useless - I am merely responding to the current objections as I see them.  Thank you all for taking the time to read the whole article before posting a reply.

Love,

Ged



Notes:
"When the virus is downloaded on a private gateway, it will leave a unique trace across the network and the server IP containing the virus will be visible across the world network in the Revelation Day room of the left menu. The virus will be visible regardless if it is installed or not." "The Revelation virus locations can be found in the Revelation Day room of the left main menu." - Support for 2 and 3
"Only ONE Revelation virus can be installed every 6 hours. If another Revelation install process completed, it will notify the remaining time before another Revelation virus can be installed." - Support for 4

'Nuff said.

I totally agree with Ged Crimsonclaw, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

We'll probably see the first Revelation Day in a few months or so. Until then, it's a nice way to keep things interesting  :)

Depents on the virus stats.

For example, you can start download multiple copies (say 10) of the virus, and complete the download at the same time. Dont activate the virus ( so people cant use AV) Start to mass research them, ( delete file speeds is only roughly equal to 15 kb/s, should be possible to overcome with enough research ) Once your virus reached a very high level, like say version 500000 that takes forever to disinfect, start to install the virus and Boom. Reset.

Of course the above is theoretical and could be completely off.   :laugh:

And how would you research when every noob can crack the server and kill the research job? It would be a cat / mouse game :)

version 500000... I can't even imagine how much hardware you would need for that  :laugh:

Ok I admit, I dont know that research can be killed by remotehost  ( silly me )  :16:


But you can still make massive copies of the virus in multiple servers right? and put them into activation mode. so its still possible if you got like 500000 ( lol that number again ) uninstalled virus and when you choose to install 10, there is a good chance of those 10 going off.

Everquest lasted how many years? It only dies because newer, better games came out.

WoW is still going strong, as is EVE online (7 and 5 years respectively).

Puzzle pirates is also 5, and has over 3 million people playing. Granted it has 8 "oceans" (servers) now, but it has no resets (even in the 8th "test server")

Even Pardus, another browser-based game puts the lie to that: it is approaching it's 4th birthday (and I've been playing for over a year), and it is going strong. The closest thing it has had to a reset was last June, when they opened two more servers. The first server, however, continues onwards.

On the flip side, there is no game that has achieved any level of acclaim that has resets.


The Statement "Persistent worlds are destined to get boring." is not supported by any facts: what is shown is that the best MMOs available do not reset, and instead continue to expand to keep experienced players challenged and new players supported.



Siremi, While I am a novice game developer (I have yet to publish a game in any form), I still know that the voice of the players is far more important that one's own goals: I lost a good game to my own blindness (I added a major change that was unpopular, and didn't listen to people say they didn't like it). Heed my warning: your current path will destroy this game, as surely as anything you can do.


And if you ignore my warning, I will have no choice but to consider this game dead, and cease to expend energy trying to make it better.

WoW == 0 (see Southpark 1008 - Make Love, Not Warcraft)

Eve == best time I had was as a newbie, now I log once a month to change a skill. Have lots of isk and high skills and it's all boring as expected. Tried everything, but nothing compared to a new beginning...

HP is different and not about profit, HP is all about change and exploring new ideas. Some may not like it because it's too radical, others may enjoy it, but HP will always have an active community.

HP is a project that is just beginning to unravel. How can anyone state that a 2 and a half months old game is going to die? It's ridiculous.

Now please stop arguing about death and all that, it's not going to happen. The game started from 0 players and had 1000 registered in the first two days. If you don't like the changes, by all means, try the above persistent commercial games.

That's all.

Umm...  You say that you agree, and then you say that you don't  :21:.  What I said was - a reset will probably never happen  :).

To player - I have already responded to you above.  Please to read my post, thank you.

To Zac, Ebolla, HJ, etc...  HP is NOT getting reset!  The player support for Faith is abundantly clear, and as long as there are enough current and active players that oppose a reset, it can not happen.

Sure, we all think that it is unlikely that HP will be reset. It will be powerfull players aswell as groups who are going to prevent it, yes you are right.
But it will be a constant job cracking and disinfecting every Revelation virus out there, leaving no room to actually play this game (a bit of exaggerating). And as mentioned earlier it will be a drain on AP.

So even though there might be enough players to stop Revelation, the game will still limit them in their actions.

I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

I leave the problem as to whether the reset will or will not happen to others. The problem, as I see it, is not the idea of a reset, but the idea of a reset on a game which many were led to believe would not be reset.

There's a reason other games have introduced new servers, because there is something to be said for the fun of playing from humble beginnings and raising oneself to the top through effort and cleverness. In many instances, and for some people, this is the part of the game that is most enjoyable. But that is not so for everyone, and these people thought (with good reason) that their work would not be wiped out by a reset, hence the frustration one hears on this thread.

What disappoints me the most about the Revelation/Faith idea is not so much the reset, as the fact that the setting of this game could offer so much more. To put it bluntly, it's an awful way to 'end' the game, considering the fact that a conflict between True Light and the three mega-corps allows so many possibilities for an interesting storyline, with the possibility of side stories, for players to enjoy. I saw a game with possibilities, and I now see a game that is wrapped up before it had the chance to flourish.

This post is not directed against anyone. I just felt I needed to express my disappointment.

Nice post Magna Carta.

I just thought of something terribly unbalancing... Players are allowed to have multiple accounts, as long as they don't interact with other. Each new account has 3K AP. Each account can only install one Revelation virus. What's to stop a player who wants this to happen from making 100 accounts and having each one install the virus? Sure, it would be stopped at first, but since it costs AP to disinfect/stop, eventually players would actually be unable to do anything. Even though 99% of the players don't want a reset, in a way it's inevitable.

EQ is still going strong.  Yes they have condensed servers but they are still out there.
SWG was killed by unpopular changes IE Newb Experience, and Combat Downgrade
WoW while it has never attracted me it is still going strong.
Eve-Online is going strong as well.  And anyone who thinks it gets boring at the high end is smoking crack or trying to lie.  There is stuff to do at all levels.  Granted if all you are is a miner then yeah it gets boring.  But look at the war that has ravaged Eve for what 2 years now?
HP is weakening.  That is evident by the #1 player selling his account and the #2 player thinking of doing the same.  It is evident by the number of "players" that are inactive.  It is evident in the fact that this forum has dropped from dozens upon dozens of messages a day to just a few in comparison.  It is evident in the fact that there is no competition for SGP, AiR, EoD, or TNW.  It is evident by the fact that There have been no real updates to the game in over a month.  It is evident by the fact that the same items on the Task list from over a month ago are still there.  It is evident in the fact that the developer GAVE HIS WORD this world would be persistant and that there would be other worlds that would have rounds.  It is evident in the fact that no other worlds will be put up now.  It is evident that even though the majority of the players do NOT like the "Revelation Day" idea that the developer is still going through with it knowing full well that people will leave the game in waves.
Astro Empires still going strong.  In fact I think they have opened up 1 or 2 more servers or at least have plans for it.

Quote from this page as I am typing this.
"Subverting tyranny is the highest duty."
Yet we have no way to subvert this tyranny as the Developer feels his way is the best way even to the contrary responses to the others.

Sir Emi if you decide to actually do this then this is not the game I paid for and donated to help grow.  As such I would like a refund of all donated money.  I will keep the gold but I want the rest of my money back.

      On the plus side, it's pretty good RP if you wanted to start an anti-revelation group  :16:
Crl, I think SirEmi should be adding that as an abuse  :2: because I think otherwise it's perfectly good with the no interacting accounts law..
      Well, I realize that eternally switching off the revelation viruses would get boring very quickly, if enough people shut them down you might not have to bring one down every day, either that, or no one starts up a revelation virus. I hope both are true.
      Could we get an official organization of groups and lone hacker started that just has the purpose of eradicating any revelation virus... I think it would just be there to have a group of people willing to bring them down more then an actual coordinated alliance.

- I'm still a newb, so if my post is way off.. tell me why :D

Flame me, I like the idea.
 :)

consider yourself flamed, good sir

*grabs flamethrower*

lol, jk.

I write again because I feel I must.

Much of what has been said before me, particularly by Moen, Magna Carta and Ebolla I echo.

The implementation of this change would mean a radical change to the game – I know it’s within the TOS for radical changes to be made to the game. I accepted that.

Changes are necessary to every game. Things need to be balanced, ideas need to be tried out, new content be implemented. All of this implies change some of which could change in a very substantial manner the game mechanics; it could force me to change my outlook, my tactics and my goals. I am sure I would welcome some of those changes, and I would probable curse a few of them too.

But HP would remain HP. Evolving certainly changing but that tingle of excitement – not knowing if my servers have been hacked, if my plans have worked out, have my precious virii been disinfected or stolen?

All of this matters because I have a goal. It’s not a goal which can be accomplished in a day or a week or a month or even several months. But I have it and I wish to accomplish it. To that means I have poured in resources – I have spent a considerable amount of time reading and learning, planning and calculating. I have contributed financially in order to put forward my plans to the stage where they are manageable and I have committed myself to the joys of the game.

Ash.

Ash is all that I feel is left now. The bitter disappointment of a dream of a joy which seems to be going horribly terribly wrong. Now I know all my work was for naught, for I will probably not see its fruition. Or will I? Everything is uncertain and in the uncertainty there is no joy, only ash.

A fresh start would compensate? No… the mere thought of having again to find hundreds of secret servers… well that is certainly not a joy.

We talk about other successful games. I think perhaps the following might be a more accurate model for HP to follow:

Kapilands – An economic modeling game
Renaissance Kingdoms (RK) – A medieval setting game
World of Dungeons (WoD) – A fantasy setting game

Most of you will not have heard of these I suppose. They all share these characteristics in common:

1) They are all persistent worlds. Never does the game stop, though in some cases you, as an individual, have that option.
2) None of them are “commercial” in the normal sense of the world. RK was developed by 3 friends, the other two have a single developer behind them.
3) They have all been greatly expanded by players helping the developers. Game translations, art, stories, background etc. have all contributed to make them great games.
4) They all have a playerbase of over 100,000 active players (WoD might be a tiny bit less, hard to know but the others are both well over the mark), sometimes distributed in various worlds, sometimes only in one. I think that makes all of them very successful. That is the sort of thing I was hoping for HP.
5) They all have the same financing model as HP does. This may be a minor point for some, but I feel Sir Emi might like to know.

I know feel sad and to some extent betrayed when I log onto HP. I think that the fundamental nature of the consequences implementing the proposed Faith-Revelation story are enormous.

I also realize that Sir Emi has put a lot of work already into this game – I’ve been a game developer as well and I have some idea how it works (and yes the games I worked on got published) – I want to help but right now I am in shock. I would like this to be a game where the players could help build it and develop it to its full potential which is there. It is something that would be fantastic for everyone… but this is just putting a break on that development.

If this goes ahead as planned I know I will not stay, maybe I will do what Ebolla claims and ask for my money back , maybe I will just fade away.

I don’t know. All I know is the current situation is more ash than joy.

I like the idea too.

(not that I would be stupid enough to even touch that reverlation thing).
Also, as Ged Crimsonclaw stated: the probability is so small. And I don't think someone will be bothered much by this. More probably once in a while some 'quitter' will try to download the virus and get so ripped apart.. And then peace.

~ setech

How would I activate 10 revelation virus.

Untested and purely theoretical, feel free to point out any errors.  :5:


The revelation virus has several differences compared to other type of virus, I ll just go for the easy way and quote Ged Crimsonclaw.
"So why worried?  Some notes, as I understand them:
1. Faith can easily disinfect Revelation
2. Revelation is easily located - it would appear to not only broadcast its location, it also deletes all defenses on the host.
3. Any player that so much as downloads Revelation will be immediately targetable, due to the unique broadcast feature, again.
4. At 6 hours per install, no parallel installs, one install per player, a day countdown, needed is a minimum of 10 players and half a week (3.5 days) of uncontested time.
5. Top players will be researching Faith and providing it freely to all.
6. "Faith anti-virus is faster then a normal anti-virus" - so it moves fast
etc."

1) Virus can be disinfected very easily.
Unless I am wrong here, but i think localhost has to power to kill any remote delete processes. So if You keep a copy of uninstalled virus in in server and consitantly checking and killing all deletes, theoretically you could keep the virus there forever.

2) Revelation is easily located.
True, if you only have 1 virus in the whole net. What if there are 10, 100,1000, 10000, or even 500000? Then it would be pain to keep track of all the virus. I think its also possible for that to happen. Because, a) you can never delete a virus thats owned by a player.
b) It is possible to complete a download, using an IP reset or log deleter version 500000  :laugh: ( downloads can only be killed by either getting into your server, or the host kills it. )

3) Revelation negates defenses.
So what? let them come, they cant do much harm anyways until you actually start to install the virus.

4) Half week of activation time.
Ok there is probably no way around this one, as once the virus is installed, AV will kick in and disinfect the virus. The only way to do this is probably research till disinfecting time is higher than the total activation process. Either you use IP reset alot, (resetting in 5 min intervals) or just try your luck. ( If you got a chain of virus set up like above, of course. )

5) AV version is higher than virus version.
Yea and probably will stay that way. Only way around it is to research the virus to prolong the disinfect time.

Your speech brings us great sadness I'm sure, let us try to stave off your leaving, and keep the revelation from ending the Mega corps for as long as possible.

I can improve upon that: I just don't finish installing until I can finish 10 or more so AVs don't work. If I get 1000 or so servers, and start downloads to an equal amount of Corp. Servers, then activate them, I can probably get 200 in. You then have 24 hours to disinfect 191, while simultaneously stopping me from starting new Revelations.

And yes, I am perfectly willing over some week-long vacation from college to get a couple friends, and spend time on making 1000 accounts just to do this: You can slow us down, but you can't stop us.

I bet with just 250 accounts, I could (solo) unleash a barrage of Revelations that would require the efforts of SGP to stop. The issue is that I can stop deletion processes, I can accept the AV and begin installing another, and with that many accounts, you'd be hard pressed to beat them all.

And you would need to beat them all: as far as I can tell, if I get 15 installed, even if you shut down 6 of them, if I can get another one up, that clock is still going. And if I can get another 10 up, that clock is as good as finished.

I can only hope SirEmi makes using multiple accounts to bring about the revelation an abuse  :13:
Zac, I thought you were going to be against the revelation  :2:

Yeah going against Faith is a big mistake ^^

I am.


But it's way too easy to run Revelations.

I think he was just giving an example.  Very similar to what I gave when the Newbie Protection was implemented and how it could be abused.
To be honest this soon to be update just makes dupe accounts even more abusable.  Create the account.  Download the virii and install it on the server then walk away.

Running off of ^^
Depending on the specs of the Revelation virus... couldn't someone that is still in Newbie Protection download the virus and constantly research it with no worry about harm coming to them or their virus?

And then all it would take would be some people to download it and spread it...  but than again, the required specs might be too much for a new account.

Nope: I can be protected. I just never upgrade Bandwidth or CPU: I can still increase HDD.

and that "Only spawns on servers with protection >1.0" limit doesn't do anything: I just need one server to access the Revelation server, and download it, then have a bunch of people download from there.

 :10: it blows that we've been forced to this......... as it stands i have been going more and more inactive as time goes by........... because i simply don't see the point anymore, as a lot of other higher ranking players have been saying, the game lacks the fun it started with, i used to be able to slip into a server, install a virii real quick, and have myself a new farm............ now it's that i have to wait and wait, and sometimes never get it because newbie is based purely on hardware (i still believe this is stupid)

i also see the potential on this, and let us not forget that you could simply keep track of all of the 1.0+ truelights and install on all of them, or have people helping you, in addition to strong players

also, the very nature of the game demands resets.......... i found tiaks server, and i scanned him, and he has a undeleter 34.? already......... he's not even the strongest player, this should tell you something............. or that might just be my opinion

I agree this game needs something for the high-powered players to do to keep them from just doing insane research projects. However, I don't think this is it.


What I would do, if I were the developer, is make a new type of server: an internal network. Basically, you get to hack into an office space, and have to balance how much you want to do with the risk that some of the workers in the office are hackers that will, if alerted to your presence, attempt to shut you out, wipe out your virii, and/or hack into your computer.


Although, there's a lot of mediocre ideas (this one included) that have been suggested that would give the high-powered players something they can do other than make life difficult or easy for newbies.

Well, if you want to make this game more intresting, I think theres other ways to do it other than reset. For example, you could introduce a bypass software that can crack into all servers, disregarding their firewall and protect version, at cost of huge amount of AP and real life time. Then you can do the same for a special log undeleter, then you solved the problem of unhackable servers and put a limit on how far people research. Add more initiative for people to attack other people's server, for example, mega corp vs true light wars, you could make a very intresting game.

It is evident that the game is not as popular as before after this update  ( just check the online count, now days its 40 to 50 at one time compared to a week ago which is 80 to 100 )  :2:

I'm sorry, but if your solution to the stalemate that is the Hacker Project is a "super bypass" that ignores the actual defense, then you may want to seek professional help. A server is only as valuable as the processes and software running on it and if anyone, regardless of their power, can hack into you and kill your protects, disinfects, and all your research, then nothing in the game has any value at all. Now, back on topic.

Updates against the desire of the general community tend to be bad, but the game has already survived through a few of them. Eventually all us older players will be gone, and no one will know how it was before. Voila, no more whining.

^^ it is ok, I will stay forever and whine for everyone...

And I'll have read the forums enough to know the oldies that whined and whined  :16:
I wonder if the inevitable reset will make most of you quit, and all of the new players will have no idea what happened...  :10:

Maybe.

But then again, maybe we'll see more people like Hatejacket, who take out their aggression on other players.


I know I've considered doing that.

I will say this much.  If the current world gets reset then the next world had better watch out for SGP because the dogs of war shall be unleashed.

And people from the early days of this world know how competitive SGP can be if we put 50% of our effort into it.

Will SGP accept outsiders to help? Because while I am not as competitive as Six Gun Project, I am more than willing to serve as a bullet.

Heh... You said bullet.

http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=726.msg7701#msg7701

Updated the topic with the Revelation vs. Faith exact specifications.

Siremi, I've been pretty quiet on the whole on the Revelation issue, cause honestly, I don't think it'll happen. That said, I think what a lot of us find painful is that you explicitly stated that this was a permanent world, and that resets would be something for the next server, perhaps. I don't mind that a reset is possible, I just mind that it's possible after you told us it wouldn't be. It seems like a cop-out to ignore the balance issues this game seems to be developing. If I'm wrong, by all means correct me; this is just how I feel.

I agree with Raistlin but there is some other things that triggered this enormous reaction;
It seems like you dont care about your customers but only take those updates you would like to occure. Lets take the AP system; It caused several people to leave and many others to start question the fun they get out of this game. Do you want it to happen again? Listen carefully to your customers before doing an update like this or you will risk losing them.

Or worse. Think about the trouble Hatejaceket caused after the AP update (went around attacking players at random).

A new round is the best time to introduce new updates to the game. If major new features / updates are introduced in a new round, it's less likely that will cause un-balance.

If we have a persistent HP server, it will have very few updates because of the balance issues that will create a discrepancy between higher and lower players.

HP is still in development and we want to introduce new awesome features, so that's why it will have rounds so that we can further develop the game.

As said earlier, we expect the first Revelation Day in about 2-3 months. Plenty of time to work on the new features that will come in the new round.

Can you give us a promise that we can trust that some of what we want will be implemented?


For that matter, can you give a promise we can trust, period.



I will give you that restarting is a good way to implement new features, but I think I speak for many of us that we are far more interested in persistence than new features.

Sir Emi, as someone who no longer has ANY selfish interest in this game, please listen to me. Since I no longer have an account or any way to profit/benefit from this game, believe me when I say that I'm posting on these forums for the benefit of HP, its players, and you. The only reason I'm still here is because I want this game to succeed!

The issue is here is not that people don't like your updates; it's not even that you're implementing rounds, even though you said you wouldn't - it's that no one here feels that you're actually listening to them. I'm sure you read our posts, but you never really respond to them... You only post more information about the updates you've already decided to do. It happened to me countless times while I was playing and I see it happening again to the people who are playing.

Rounds are a good thing... they're a very, very good thing because, as you said, it allows massive updates and puts everyone on equal footing again. But, have you considered that they players here may not WANT to be on equal footing? Even low players (the thoughtful ones, anyways) don't want rounds or updates that are to the disadvantage of the more powerful players. Why? Because they someday hope to BE those powerful players, and they know that the result of them attaining their goals and becoming more powerful is that someday your updates will hurt them, instead of those who used to be at the top.

Here's my unbiased suggestion, made because I want this game to succeed - take it or leave it: Keep the persistent world we have now. Eventually, it will become so unbalanced that players will either ask for rounds, or the playerbase will be big enough that you'll be able to add another world with rounds. I'm sure that if players FEEL they're being listened to (I emphasize feel because it's more important how people feel about a game than the reality of it. I do think you're listening now, players just don't feel that you are), then donations will increase and the game will grow even faster. I'd like to use myself as an example, if I may... In the first week of playing this game, I looked around the forum and it seemed that you were a developer that listened to the community. In that first week, I bought gold membership and told at least a dozen people about this game, several of them started playing. In the days/weeks that followed, I began to feel that you either didn't hear me, or didn't care about what I was saying. I didn't donate another penny and I haven't told another person about this game since. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is in this boat either.

I graduated with a Business major a few years ago. Please allow me to share one of the (few) things I learned  :5: Your job in business is not to make the best or the most balanced game. Your job in business is to please your customers and keep them interested in your product. Most, if not all, of the changes you've made could still have been made if you listened to us... it just would have meant they were made a little later and the people here would have felt valued because they were heard. The AP system needed balancing (and still does, imo) after it was released and caused quite a stir here. Imagine how much better it would have been if we'd all had input... we'd probably still have an AP system, but it would be much more balanced and we'd actually WANT it because we were a part of making it.

I (always) have more I could say, but this post has grown quite long. Please consider my words Sir Emi, because I really do have your best interests in mind. Peace.

That was a really good post  :17:
Can't wait to see some 'massive updates'

Nothing Ive said can compete to what Crl just said. I can just add that I personally dont like neither the AP system nor the reset but if youve done like Crl said and listened (and responded) to us its possible that youd made me look forward to the update.
As it is now I can only be dissapointed since you dont have your customers wishes in front you. You try to do whats good for the customers and not what we want. There is a different between those;
The things that are good for the game might attract players in the future but youll lose those who have something to compare with.
The things we want would put this game to a level we enjoy and since we are the most experienced players we can compare all updates with how it was before the update. If we dont want the update you can ask us what we would like to change to make it a good update.
Heres a quote from Crl;

Crlaozwyn said the most important thing:


Make us FEEL listened to.


One of the things we do in a conversation is to make noises like "m, hm" or "ok", that make it sound like we are listening to the other person. As somebody who doesn't pick up social cues easily, it's something I've noticed because I have had to learn: other similar things include eye contact, and facing the person.

And trust me, if the other person acts completely disinterested, I don't care how passionate you are, you will lose interest, if not in the topic, than in them.

You have a big point there. I should have brought it up. However nothing we write can make Emi to listen if he allready isnt and we get the expression of that he doesnt. What happens if we get tired before Emi actually does something to show us that hes listen on us?

We'll see, won't we. Right now, I don't have any sure answers.

Sir Emi does listen at times.  But if he doesn't like the ideas he does have a tendancy to just not pay much attention.

For examples of when he has listened I point to the Task List where one of my suggestions was misinterpeted and when I corrected it he understood and updated it.

So yes he does listen at times.   But in general he makes it seem like he does not listen to the player base.

Sir Emi, I hope you take this as constructive criticism.   Always respond to our concerns.  If you feel we are coming down on you then paraphrase the post and try to figure out what our fustration is really directed at.  It is a tactic from Verbal Judo that is designed to show the person that you are in fact listening and trying to get to the root of the problem.

Now I understand that this is not your only game that you deal with.  But as it is your NEWEST game it will require the most attention until things are running smoothly and there are only minor changes that need to be made from time to time.

I really enjoy this game even though a lot of what you are doing infuriates me.  But I am just that way.  I play Shadowrun all the time even though I get my butt kicked constantly and get pissed off.   It makes me want to adapt and overcome to become a better player.

Many of the changes you have made have been smoothed out to actually be good changes.  Like I suggested before, if you want to make a MAJOR change then bring it to the player base and see what needs to be changed so that it is effective on all levels in the playing field.

And always avoid comments such as your invulnerability comment.   After all it is due to that particular comment that SGP has the defenses it has now.  Just to prove the broken system is broken.

You seem like a great guy Sir Emi and when I communicate with you one on one you do seem to listen as with the Greasemonkey Project that is now underway.   But when it comes to the forums you do not seem to be as willing to listen and that is where it is most important as that is where EVERYONE sees what kind of person you are.

I know it can be difficult and I know that SGP is a major thorn right now.   But understand we push the envelope to show you how broken something is.  Not to make your life hard.  That is not our goal nor desire.   And with this "reset" on the main server which goes against your earlier comments I can promise that SGP will be at the top each reset for as long as I am willing to put in the effort to organize things.  Not to be a thorn in your side but because if you do go through with this "reset" then you are breaking your word to the community.

Heck turn this server into your Test server and create the round based worlds seperately.  That way you can have the players who push the envelope testing out your changes before you implement them on the round based worlds.  Heck if you did that I would even be willing to create a SGP group on a round based server just to help out with teaching new things to the players.

In closing I just want to say one line that has stuck with me for a long long time.   Help us help you.

Ebolla

I do listen to everybody and then decide what's best for the game.

I am very sorry if some feel bad about the update, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens after the update.

If the game works better with rounds we'll keep them and maybe add a new persistent server later, or maybe add a new server before Revelation Day where you could transfer your account and continue to play there if you don't wish to reset...

Wouldn't it just be easier to create the 2nd world now and do the rounds on it?  I don't really want to have to reset especially since a reset means all the money I donated has gone to waste.  I am on a limited income personally and when I donate money it means a lot.

This gives me hope. A few things though:



1) Don't do what's best for the game. Do what's best for the players: the game will follow.
2) Definitely add the persistent server first, and allow anyone to clone an account onto it, if they don't have one there already. I suspect that would do a lot towards having us believe you about listening. Also, it would allow people who do well one round to have their work go towards the endless hack.
3) You don't need to post everywhere: Baldur and Bladefist of Pardus specifically don't post anywhere. However, they do promise to read the Feature Request section, and enough of the new features they have added are in line with what has been suggested that we feel they listen to us.

SGP's Statement of intent (http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=748.0)

This has nothing to do with Sir Emi but has more to do with the story and feeding more into the story.

Verbal Judo..
Never heard of that one before, but its a verry good name for such a thing (I do normal Judo, have a black belt, so I know what Judo means)


SirEmi:
That is a perfect move in my eyes (but mabey it would be easier to ad a server that had rounds?)
It makes people feel you listen to them and do whant, while you stil get what you want :cheer:

Okay, at first please do not speak as a voice of all players. Speak only for yourself.

Secondly, i am sure you all players think you know what should be done for the game. I am sure that all of us want's to be heard.

However, After all hopes,wishes and ideas are suggested the creator has the last word, the final. After that, all complaints are terrorizing the game developement and there is actually no other choice that accept the truth and continue playing or accept the truth and create your own game. Peace.

I have made my own games.


And what I have learned is that games need people to play them. Thus, if one wants one's game to be any good, one must listen to their players, or play alone.

I personally have my own in-game terrorist who takes great joy in breaking every game I make. I make sure to run every idea I have past said person, and let him rip on the idea. It's saved me more than once.

Ive noticed most of the players who have posted constructive criticism have about the same ideas;
Do whats best for the players since they are the best for the game.
Make us believe that you are listening to us.
Dont say things that contradicts other said things. (There will not be a reset on this server/This updates enables a reset function.)

Heres a list of things making us happy;
Discuss your major updates with us so we can feel that we are participating not in only the gameplay but also in the creation of this game.
Reply a little now and then to make a good inpression. It dont necessary allways have to be in FAQ/Sugg./Updates. We want to hear your voice.
And when not implenting updates please tell us why you decided to do that.

And one final thing which Ive talked a lot about. You cant really talk to much about it because it is so important.
You maybe listens. And thats the point. I cant tell for sure that you actually are listening.

And please take an evening and look through this thread and actually read the posts. Your replies almost screams out that you only listen to the most recent post and replies to that even though its not allways including constructive criticis.
And to make sure if you are reading all posts I would like you to quote me and reply to this specific post so we all can know if you are listening to us. If you dont qoute this I will assume that youre not listening to us.
Now lets hope that someone replies before Emi wakes up.

Going on topic, I think requiring the double CPU to disinfect than install is too much.

If the activation time is same as other virus, which i think is 1 Gb/ 2000 sec, 0.1 version will take 11.11 hours. ( same for disinfects )
To last through the total installation time to doom = 6 x 9 + 24 = 78 hours. 78 /11.11 = 7.02 so need to research to version 0.706.

Resources needed to run at version 0.706 =

70600 cpu , 4236 000 kb memory, 2824 bw ,  141.2 Gb.   (x 10....)

I think, it takes 15 mil HPD at least to pull the revelation thing off, so we should be safe for now  :laugh:

And those in the top who have so big servers are ready to go on a revelation hunt as soon as Dooms Day occures. Exept for Crl2. I dont know whats hes going to do. And now hes giving away his account to a random person.

I dont like this idea although I know it IS NEEDED for HP. I just hope its easy for the virii to be disinfected

I cant really understand why its needed. It would be better to make another server and have this to be the persistant test server if rounds HAVE to occure. Then everyone is aware of that this server could be unbalanced. I believe there is a text somewhere saying that HP isnt done yet.

Well the users control when a new round will begin....so this could be a pernament server

Who knows what tweaks sir emi might place on the virus in the future to make it more fatal.  :laugh:
Perhaps this world will be a testing ground.

HELP!!

i ont know what the revelation is
or what faith is
etc

but apparently, according to TNW, im now against it?

anyone help me?

im confused, because as far as im aware, all i did was disifect a coupla their viruses..
but now im on the sh*t list for the revelation day?

i mean, what the hell?
can someone tell TNW to sort themselves out?
or am i missing something here?

please reply

or send me a message

thaank yoou!!

Andrew, you been hacked wasnt anything to do with revelation day, you hacked one of our group's weaker members and deleted most of his files the other day, this was our retaliation, and you werent even hurt that bad.

On a side note though, it may have been assumed you were against Faith, as you were disinfecting virii that were put there solely to take up any BW on the truelight servers which may be used for the Revelation Virus, leaving the reply 'Game On!' to the message that was left there.

As for you not knowing about Faith & Revelation, read this thread from the beginning, also info has been added to the game guide. It is highly recommended you do this, because, as a player (gold or not) this major update affects you too.

Concerning the above mentioned 'Players vs Truelight', go here:
http://www.hacker-project.com/forum/index.php?topic=748.0

And also, no, you are not on the sh*t list at all, there is no pressure for you to pick a side, though if you do i urge you to make the right decision....*cough*Faith*cough*.....

Peace out.

Did this guy really not know about the revelation?
were have you been?
Yeah...be careful around disinfect missions, things tend to get ugly apparently.
(not that I would know *hides under newbie protection*)

Thats what I sent but now Emi havent even replied in this thread but started another one instead. I feel a little betrayed by Emi right now.

I just want to say that by general consensus TNW will stand with SGP to prevent doomsday.  I think the reset while an interesting concept should not happen. And whoever gets a copy of the Faith AV first spam its location so we can all get it to help insure that things dont go boom.

I myself am actively waiting/searching for the first faith spawn, as soon as it appears i will have a copy straight to the rest of you, aswell as a copy straight to my research server i just bought for the sole purpose of Faith research, i will then upload a new copy at every stage. If the rest of TNW agrees, i will join with SGP's methods and make the research server public knowledge so that it is freely available to anyone.

Ouh, I try to read along the thread but still don't understand all the things. To make it clearer, I would like to know:
If now I decide to donate about 500 USD (just example) into the game with which I upgrade my hardware, buy and research softwares... Then the reset come, will I lost all 500 USD above inform of what is so called "resource"?

IMHO:
If after that, 500 USD become thin air then it is really disastruos!
If after that, everything in form of resource vanishes, but my 500 USD come back into the form of HPD, say about 1750*500=875,000 HPD, then it is somehow acceptable. But it is hard to think that hours of playing would go!

Can you make it clear, Siremi, please?

(sorry for my english :-p)

It's been made clear elsewhere.

After a reset the only thing which you will keep is your Gold FTP server upgrades, and the days left of gold account. All else is reset.

So great!
Can somebody tell me why I want to throw out my money if after several days it's lost forever!  \
:laugh:

Uhmm.. Maybe...

i guess faith is up now, lol

52.202.177.173

227.179.225.19

40.63.212.166

good luck all

I find it somewhat ironic that unless my old/inactive account gets hacked and everything deleted that my name will probably still make it into the HoF even though I haven't played in weeks. Nuke it all folks... nuke it all - unless of course the buyer actually wants it, but I haven't gotten that impression.

One question,

is it possible to stop a revelation chain if a highly coordinated group decided to run it? ( in the future where everyone is richer of course )

Given SGP is on Faith's side?

Yes.

If they decided to pull Revelaion?

Game Reset becomes much more likely.

Honestly making Revelation happen would not be that difficult.  However understand SGP is taking Faith up to V10.0 so to have a chance and preventing SGP from stopping it you would have to raise Revelation to V10.006 at a minimum.

So far only TnW seems bent on messing with the Faith Union's plans to prevent Revelation from happening.  And that is evident by their attacks on Faith Union's virii to cause us to use up more AP's and decrease the chances of us being able to prevent Revelation from happening.

I know you guys don't know me, But i have been playing a few months and i won't like my work going to waste.
I saw this game didin't have rounds or resets that's why i'm playing HP, Becouse i hate resets and all that.

Make 2 worlds or make this world revelation and when revelation is happened you just close access to the game and make a copy of this server onto another.

If there comes a reset you won't see me playing again - Now it's said and i have read in this topic that there are many people with me.

I think this is a proof of that many people will leave. Including people who isnt active on the forums.

But unless im mistaken, doesnt a 0.706 version virus would take likes 78+ hours to disinfect? Considering you only need to have the virus there for 78 hours...  :21:

"If the activation time is same as other virus, which i think is 1 Gb/ 2000 sec, 0.1 version will take 11.11 hours. ( same for disinfects )
To last through the total installation time to doom = 6 x 9 + 24 = 78 hours. 78 /11.11 = 7.02 so need to research to version 0.706."

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that VM, i can assure you that, as has been said before by zand, TNW supports SGP, and anyone else for that matter in their efforts to make sure revelation day never occurs. I cannot speak for any lone member deciding to do otherwise, but any decision like that wouldn't be welcome within the group. Could you please PM me in-game so as i can speak to zand about the matter. Thanks.

I think your way off Virus Man but everyone is entitled to there opinion. I personally have not even retaliated for others stealing my viri for the past 2 weeks after hearing about revalation. And as for forcing others to use there AP, Do you expect everyone, not just TNW, to stop playing the game now that that this is going on? TNW has always had a you steal my viri Ill mess with all of your policy. That has not changed, though we are focussing on stopping the doomsday just as much as anyone else. Im personally doing 120 hours of research on Faith as we speak.

So from my personal opinion to yours. Piss off VM!

The only war we have (and it has been declared) is against Revelation, i know that for one, i dont have the patience to wait for a 70+ hour disinfection to replace a virii, there are enough empty servers out there. That said, f one of our group is replacing SGP virii, then they should not be using TNW named virii, i assure you we have no war with SGP, if anything we should be standing side-by-side against the current revelation threat.

Peace Out.

I hope that is true.  And if the one member can be identified I will be glad to send the pitbull after that one person.   I did respond to your in game PM already as well as giving you the servers they are using to bounce through.

I retract my previous end statement, I was feeling a little pissy at that point> Im sure everyone understands when your being accused of something after stating previously you where not going to get involved.

What happens to the HPD of each indivual player do we keep what we have or is it just reset as well?

HPD is reset to 0. All servers are deleted expect your main one. All hardware is reset to basic. All software is deleted, only basic password and firewall protect (0.106) and firewall + password break (0.1) is left.

The only that'll survive is your gold account status

and your group max members