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"Being legal doesn't make it right."
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Author Topic: Drugs  (Read 23274 times)
Adramalech
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2008, 12:47:59 PM »

I don't do drugs, (no problem with cafeďne etc.),

fascinating what biology teaches you about the working of cigarettes and drugs 1
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Andreas
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 09:33:04 AM »

Did you know that 5mg of nicotine is lethal? I think a cigarette contains 3mg. Im not sure about how much there is in a cigarette. But 5mg is lethal. Crazy. Thats about how much a drop contains.
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My sweet Eleonore, show no fear,
for the fearful riders are all ear,
and they smell and tastes every tear.
But more importantly: They aren't here!
Therefore there is no reason to fear.
Not until they ride again, my dear.
Moen Co.
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 10:29:42 AM »

[sarcasm] Then I should probably be dead a couple times over.   21 [/sarcasm]

Edit: Sorry, forgot the tags.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 12:03:25 PM by Moen Co. » Logged

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Adramalech
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2008, 10:45:39 AM »

BUT, if there is 3mg in a ciggarete, and 5 mg nicotine IN YOUR BLOOD is lethal, almost everything burns up or something, only a tiny bit really reaches your blood.
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Andreas
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2008, 10:53:00 AM »

Then I should probably be dead a couple times over.   21

Your not dead because you havent drunk 5mg. Youve only got a few tenths of a mg in your lungs where it only affects your ability to breath. But ofcourse it isnt lethal so I cant say that you shouldnt stop smoking because of that. No matter its slowly destroying your lungs until you die or have to quit because itll make your lungs collapse.
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My sweet Eleonore, show no fear,
for the fearful riders are all ear,
and they smell and tastes every tear.
But more importantly: They aren't here!
Therefore there is no reason to fear.
Not until they ride again, my dear.
Adramalech
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2008, 12:38:48 PM »

nicotine has nothing to do with lungs dying, it's the tar in ciggarettes that kills your lungs.
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Moen Co.
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2008, 12:50:08 PM »

P.S. Dent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 40–60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.
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Witcher
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2008, 12:50:27 PM »

Arthur a piece of advice. Don't believe everything you read.

Especially NOT if it comes from Wikipedia. (which this may or may not have done)

True a cigarette can contain the amounts you quoted (note - can - usually it doesn't)

The LD 50% in human is estimated to be around 50 mg ... estimated but never proven except...

Guess what? There are nicotine patches out there which contain 24 mg of nicotine. Now what does that mean? I slap a couple of those on you while you sleep and BLAM you die? Er... no. If that was the case people like the FDA would not let them out for people to play with...

Or consider this ... a batch of ground beef had been released which was contaminated with 300 mg/kg of nicotine. Sure it made some people sick... but no one died. If the LD 50% was 50 mg you would have seen several deaths. Particularly in children.

And yeah - picking tobacco actually makes some people sick under certain conditions, probably due to nicotine (nicotine transfers very well through skin... hence the nicotine patch!)

So... sorry your numbers are waaaaaaaaaaay off. I am not a fan of tobacco and I have grown cells under nicotine stress and I'd be the first to say it's not good for you, but there is no need to be an alarmist.

(BTW : LD 50% is the lethal dose which would cause half (50%) of a population to die).

Another funny fact - (which you should be aware of Arthur as I believe that it's a common thing in your part of the world) how much nicotine do you think people who *chew* tobacco get in their system anyhow? Tobacco paste (or whatever it's called) contains more nicotine than a cigarette, it doesn't get burned and... guess what? People don't die of that either!!!

So... yeah I would say don't smoke. It's bad for you. Heck we all know that - every smoker I have met knows that... But we have to die of something right?  12 (no I don't smoke irl but I don't have a problem with people who do so politely)
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coffee1
Andreas
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2008, 01:00:26 PM »

Nicotine is corrosive and affects the lungs helping to kill them. But yes, your right, its the tar that is worst. Its the bad guy breaking down the filters that normally keeps dust and other matter to enter the lungs. Youd be amazed if you knew what happens to a drowning person. She breaths water which literally tores the lungs apart. However a person drowning dont have enough ime to actually rip them to pieces. The same process happens when you smoke because the smoke allows stuff to easier enter the lungs. Not very nice and Ive not started to talk about cancer.

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 40–60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.
Wrong in my memory. It was a long time ago I read about it. 50 or 5. Hard to remember what.

And Witcher; I said it was lethal to drink clean of. Not by mixing it in a steak or what you whatever said. In those ways you mentioned high doses it was never concentrated. Its lethalness depends on how it is mixed.

I was reading about it and the facts came from a chemestry/biology professor so Ill take it as granted that its true.
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My sweet Eleonore, show no fear,
for the fearful riders are all ear,
and they smell and tastes every tear.
But more importantly: They aren't here!
Therefore there is no reason to fear.
Not until they ride again, my dear.
Adramalech
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2008, 01:29:44 PM »

it's funny to know, everytime you inhale, your cells are mutating because of the stuuf in  the cigarette, and if the mutation is in the control part of your genes, you get cancer 1 so you never know, kinda looks like gambling...

@the chewing tobacco,
the nicotine travels with your spit down to your stomache, almost everything of it is destroyed by  the acid inside your stomache, so not mmuch harm caused..

p.s question:
anyone knows how fast nicotine gets filtered out of your blood? (because i don't know, and would like to know.)
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Witcher
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« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2008, 04:58:30 PM »

And Witcher; I said it was lethal to drink clean of. Not by mixing it in a steak or what you whatever said. In those ways you mentioned high doses it was never concentrated. Its lethalness depends on how it is mixed.

I was reading about it and the facts came from a chemestry/biology professor so Ill take it as granted that its true.

Really? So by your reasoning arsenic mixed with salt is no longer toxic? I don't recommend you try that... Take it from someone who knows. (really I know). It is true that the lethality of a toxin depends on the method of delivery - thus an ingested toxin will have a different LD50 than the same toxin inhaled or that same toxin absorbed through skin or injected intravenously, or elsewhere (subcutaneously, intraperitoneally, or if you want to be really nasty into the CNS)

However the concentration of the toxin is entirely irrelevant. If the LD50 of a toxin is 50 mg, it doesn't matter if you drink the 50 mg in a thimble or in a 2 litre bottle - it will still have 50% chance of killing you. There is a (slight) difference with toxins administered with certain foodstuffs - but generallly this is only the case for foodstuffs which are capable of inactivating or sequestering the toxin such as high roughage content food (which could bind to the toxin and make it unavailable - for instance muesli... don't try lacing muesli with arsenic though!) or substances which contain a significant amount of fat particles which could again sequester the toxin resulting either in activation or delayed release. (for instance... milk!) However in the case cited above the carrier was readily digestible (meat!) and therefore most of the nicotine would have been available as expected. (With the exception of that destroyed in the cooking process). In the case of tobacco chewing the nicotine becomes available directly into the saliva - in that case there is really NO physiological difference between drinking the stuff and chewing the tobacco.

I'll tell you another thing about chemistry professors - and I generally like the guys, spent enough time around them! - They are not always right (nor is anyone else). Trust yourself and check everything you are told. You'll find inconsistencies now and then but by resolving them you'll probably learn something interesting.

Thats my last word on this - you don't need to believe me. I don't ask you to. Check the evidence though.

Take a look at this:

http://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/nicotine/casedef.asp
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coffee1
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2008, 04:59:36 PM »

Ok so back on topic which originally started...

My fav drugs are endorphins. They are fantastic. I love them. Can't get enough of them. Wish I could get more of them. Addicted and proud of it. I only ever use those I make myself however. Can't go around trusting others with this sort of thing.

 17
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coffee1
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2008, 09:11:38 PM »

Nicotine is corrosive and affects the lungs helping to kill them. But yes, your right, its the tar that is worst. Its the bad guy breaking down the filters that normally keeps dust and other matter to enter the lungs. Youd be amazed if you knew what happens to a drowning person. She breaths water which literally tores the lungs apart. However a person drowning dont have enough ime to actually rip them to pieces. The same process happens when you smoke because the smoke allows stuff to easier enter the lungs. Not very nice and Ive not started to talk about cancer.

I have never seen anything related to nicotine being corrosive to lungs. Actually, since nicotine is not an acid, but a weak base (I've seen its pKa rated between 7.84 and 9), I hardly see how it could 'corrode' anything.

I should also add that nicotine has yet to be classified as carcinogenic. By itself, it neither causes nor promotes the development of cancers. Rather, it affects one of the main mechanisms by which cancers are eliminated before they have a chance to grow (apoptosis).

There is quite a bit of misleading information out there about cigarettes. I won't deny that they are unhealthy, but I have lost faith in most 'facts' which are presented in the media, or elsewhere for that matter. Most studies commissioned by the cigarette manufacturers are condemned as biased (which they very well might be), while those studies commissioned by pharmaceutical companies are taken at face value (because they show how 'bad' cigarettes 'really' are); it should be noted that those same pharmaceutical companies produce 'smoking cessation' products, ranging from 'nicotine replacement' (patches) to remarketed antidepressants (Zyban, which is the same drug as bupropion). In my opinion, this puts them in the very same position as the cigarette manufacturers.
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Moen Co.
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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2008, 09:51:18 PM »

Yes yes back on topic, seeing Dent show his intelligence always gets my boxer-briefs in a bunch.

I'm a hallucinogenic fan myself, LSD probably being my favorite, but I haven't gotten around to finding mescaline/DMT. I'm also kinda prone to bad trips so I prefer to dose myself at home rather than a party.

Expand your mind. :3
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ZacQuicksilver
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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2008, 10:26:23 PM »

Smoking is Strongly correlated to lung cancer.

Chewing tobacco has been correlated to various forms of oral cancer.

There is (possibly questionable) evidence that Cigarettes are highly addictive: something like a 90% chance of being addicted after one (I doubt this, but I have seen that number used).

That said, several Native American tribes smoked tobacco (not Cigarettes, but Tobacco leaves) for hundreds of years. If there was anything that hurt their survival, it should have killed them off. However, they didn't die off, so it appears that there is nothing in Tobacco that is harmful. Perhaps the lesson here is that the processing that turns Tobacco into Cigarettes is harmful to human health.
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I hack games, not computers, in my life.

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