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"Hackers come and go, but a great hack is forever."
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Author Topic: Action Points - major update  (Read 24628 times)
Araeus
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« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2008, 02:22:01 PM »

You know what I love most about the AP system?

There is now no way a new player can ever reach the top 10.

I mean honestly think about it.  I know I use Virii and Missions to make my HPD.   My Virii are Free HPD without the cost of AP except when I install new ones.  So I get that income and all the income from missions.  How can a newer or younger player hope to even compete with that?

That's a very, very good point.  You had all these in before the AP system so they were free, where new players will now have to spend loads of AP to try and populate their .1 viruses, which will just get removed anyway most of the time or taken over by spyware...
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Noseedam
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« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2008, 02:22:28 PM »

fact of the matter is that siremi screwed up big on this one................ and i don't care if i get banned for saying it, it's the truth and it needs to be heard, even if no one else is brave enough to say it
You know what I love most about the AP system?

There is now no way a new player can ever reach the top 10.

I mean honestly think about it.  I know I use Virii and Missions to make my HPD.   My Virii are Free HPD without the cost of AP except when I install new ones.  So I get that income and all the income from missions.  How can a newer or younger player hope to even compete with that?

supports the argument, and also
From what i've seen so far .... i'm in favor of the AP system.
Not to sound like an elitist, but exactly how much have you seen termul?
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Now tell me: do you think it's healthy to spend 14 hours on this game every day.
and do you believe that it's your responsibility to decide how people should spend their time?
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I believe i'm an average player spending a daily 3-4 hours on this game and there's no way in hell that will ever be out of action points. Hasn't even dropped below 2950 during the day.
Everyone likes to believe that how they play is the norm. Believe me, I could easily spend 5K+ AP per day playing less than 2 hours. What are your system specs? For example, if I wanted to, my computer could handle well over 500 delete missions simultaneously. That's 5K ap right there.
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Sir Emi can do some minor adjustments at will, but in competition terms the AP system will be a good thing.
AP is good for you, because you're not one of the more active players and haven't found a way to spend your AP quickly.
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But he should also compensate those who have paid for this game and will now have less value for their money
Although I'd love a refund of my gold membership money, I'd probably stop playing if I got it. I really like the game I paid for, but in many ways I'm no longer playing that game. On the other hand, there's no way that siremi can really afford to reimburse us - real server aren't free, and his time isn't cheap either.


oh, and lets not forget
<.>

Perhaps a way to boost your ap's periodically like drugs in pardus...

i used to play pardus, and the ap system there works effectively.
However, i do feel that you cant compare the two as they work on different rules. AS stated by zac, ap was the only limiting factor (money to use on drugs not included) whilst in hacker project you are governed by the process times. In a way, this is already implemented with the fact that delete/disinfects/process'es in general take the exact same amount of time for everyone, which in hindsight is a good move.

I just don't think using ap's to limit people's activities is the right choice...

need i more support? oh yeah, lets not forget the entire petition! that alone says something............
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sign the AP petition already!!!!!!!!!!!!
OcTAvIAn
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« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2008, 03:07:17 PM »

Petition to get rid of AP:

- Hatejacket
- Caesar
- Sovietpride
- Noseedam
- Magna Carta
- DrJones
- OcTAvIAn
-
-
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Theraze
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« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2008, 03:16:26 PM »

Petition to get rid of AP:

- Hatejacket
- Caesar
- Sovietpride
- Noseedam
- Magna Carta
- DrJones
- OcTAvIAn
- Theraze
-



As well, if the heat system goes into affect, it means that installing virii on someone's computer harms them even more... If somehow you manage to get 5 virii on someone's system while they're gone, for example, they're now screwed because they're gaining tons of heat from that bandwidth that's being continually used. On your side? No costs... it's just free cash coming in every bit.

Honestly, the problem with most of these types of 'fixes' is that they screw newbies so much more then they screw the big players. The newbies are struggling to do the 5 and 13 hpd jobs (and if you aren't running out of ap doing those, you aren't doing it right). A good newbie starting would be upgrading their CPU and deleting more and more files to raise their CPU up to where they have an actual income. But with this change, the newbie will now be limited to only deleting a smaller amount... and they'll have no chance to actually get through the jobs for deleting 100+ files, since those are going to be more jealously guarded by the mid-level players.

The big players? It costs soviet the same to upload his fileshare as it does the newbie with their .1 adware. 1 Guess who makes more and which is going to be a better way of making cash? Heh.
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Noseedam
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« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2008, 03:28:11 PM »

i don't think i need to restate emi, and i've already gone from 3000 to 1600 and i haven't been overly active today, i haven't even done a single mission..........
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sign the AP petition already!!!!!!!!!!!!
termul
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« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2008, 03:43:12 PM »

@Crlaozwyn:

No need to go into defence m8.
I've seen enough of this game to know what i'm talking about.

So perhaps i am not the average player, but i still don't believe that the majority of the players spends over 10 hours a day on this game. And i couldn't care less if they did, that's their choice.

Besides that i could also spend all my AP if i wanted, but i already do try to spend resources as effeciently as possible, instead of just flooding npc servers with adware.

So you can do 500 delete missions at the same time........... 500 * 100 cpu = 50 ghz processor (!!). In that case it might be a good idea to set a limit to hardware upgrades to be more realistic.

More general speaking: I think top players are evolving way to fast (and that seems to be sir emi's main worry too). And because they've also teamed up (and thus not competing eachother) they are already beyond anybodies reach and there's no stopping them.
So i support sir emi's actions to put a limit somewhere.
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Theraze
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« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2008, 03:51:23 PM »

Except as I pointed out, it costs soviet the same to put his fileshare virus out there as it does you to put your adware out there... Main difference is that his will likely get onto the server faster. 1 The only part of it that's slower is the actual activation. And for that part, he can already move to uploading it to the next server.

Basically, the issue with this (or heat) is that they penalize the newbies more than they do the big players. Heat? Will screw a newbie up hard when their entire system is being used up by virii. Put a single overload bomb on it and all their HW is used up except BW.

The issue is that HP USED TO be a game you could enjoy as much as you wanted to... there was no need to wait around if you were feeling creative... could always just go try to find a new secret server to do missions from. Now? You'll end up using all your AP just getting into the secret servers, much less doing missions. 1 The best strategies at the moment with disinfection, virii, and the time limits being the way they are would be:
a) upload major fileshare virii to the public/secret with the knowledge they're going to be wiped out soon
b) put major fileshare virii on your OWN servers, as that doesn't cost you hardly any AP and nobody's going to stop your income
c) just start infecting all the newbies until they quit and you keep making money, since nobody's going to stop your income

Missions aren't any sort of a good choice at the moment, besides disinfection missions, and those ones will die out as people stop caring.
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Noseedam
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« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2008, 03:54:12 PM »

again, the reason i want clans to be formed............ so that they can work along side, or at least defend themselves from the bigger players, same way every other game does it, and the thing is, it WORKS other wise they wouldn't all do it!

i understand Hp is a work in progress,, but there are still boundaries........
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sign the AP petition already!!!!!!!!!!!!
ZacQuicksilver
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« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2008, 04:29:16 PM »

Termul. I'm not sure how much you play, but I want you to look at it from the point of view of those who do have time. I am on summer break, and around spending time with family (friends, unfortunately, are a problem since I'm changing schools next year. In addition, I prefer for a variety of reasons to use the computer to socialize. If you want a full explanation, ask for it via PM). As such, I have more than enough time (12+ hours a day). When I go to college, nothing will change: the campus I will be on has wireless everywhere, and knowing me, I'll be playing a little during class.

Suffice to say, time is not an issue, nor a health risk.


I do agree that with the most powerful players teamed up, it's hard, if not impossible for the rest of us to advance. I do agree that there needs to be a limit. I don't think AP is the way to go. I have already suggested Heat for servers, a mechanic that will disproportionally affect powerful people, as a better way to limit people
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I hack games, not computers, in my life.

I'm NOT SGP, no matter how much I support them on the forums.


Pardus.at. Let me know if you play.
Noseedam
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« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2008, 04:32:33 PM »

and active people still retain their advantage, and AP is also a problem, it prevents you from defending your server if the other person is a gold member especially! and defense at least needs to be fair.............. even if their other benefits add
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sign the AP petition already!!!!!!!!!!!!
Theraze
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« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2008, 04:42:29 PM »

Zac, the problem with that is that the big players have so much HW and SW that even if their servers get negatives at times, they'll recover VERY easily. As well, if it's possible to raise your heat tolerance (as you would have to, to make the system not be completely broken for those with high stats already) then they'll be able to raise their systems to where heat doesn't affect them in any sort of major way... while the smaller people struggling will have heat as a major issue as they won't have the credits to raise their tolerance... they'll be raising the CPU and so on instead, which makes their heat worse, etc, etc...

Basically, besides having done the system so that costs get progressively more expensive, there's not much you can do to slow down the upper people and not screw the newbies. The issue is that, whether AP or heat, they screw over newbies so much more than people who make cash easily. I make something around 1100 HPD an hour for idling. Maybe slightly higher, I'm not sure. My income is much lower than the top players. Regardless, that's income untouched by heat, AP, or anything else.

Now how is a new player going to try to come anywhere near that?
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Noseedam
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« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2008, 04:50:14 PM »

maybe 0.2's (and unders)don't generate heat? it'll give newbies a chance to get set up before they start needing to upgrade heat
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sign the AP petition already!!!!!!!!!!!!
Theraze
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« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2008, 04:54:24 PM »

Ha... that just makes it so you load up servers with .2 virii and end up with no cost. Especially on your own server(s)...

VERY easily exploited.
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Noseedam
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« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2008, 04:59:05 PM »

better than ap, and your firewalls and protects would generate heat, and also all of your cracking software, log un/deleters AV etc.
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sign the AP petition already!!!!!!!!!!!!
Theraze
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« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2008, 05:26:02 PM »

How often do you have to run those though? The protects yes... but the log deleters/undeleters don't ever need to run for more than 10 seconds. 1 Cracking software runs for 5-lots of minutes, but the breaker only needs to run for 10 seconds as well. You don't NEED to run the firewalls/protects when you're cracking, as you can't be traced then.

Again, changes that will screw over newbies more than old players, and/or make the game impossible to continue at a certain level.
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