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Author Topic: Guide update - Revelation Day  (Read 78642 times)
Crlaozwyn
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« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2008, 08:35:01 PM »

A reset in player hands means it will inevitably happen... There are over 600 secret servers, and no one as enough AP to crack all of them; it does make it more balanced and give it better story reason though. It'll be fun for you guys to try and stop it though... We'll see what the new owner of my account decides to do - I'm sure they'll want to maintain status quo.
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Ged Crimsonclaw
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« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2008, 10:43:13 PM »

I, for one, support the idea.  The theoretical reset of which we speak may never come to fruition.  It would appear that every single powerful group in the game is strongly opposed to the concept, which will guarantee that it will never happen...  unless and until all powerful players get bored with the game as it is, and voluntarily choose to reset.

So why worried?  Some notes, as I understand them:
1. Faith can easily disinfect Revelation
2. Revelation is easily located - it would appear to not only broadcast its location, it also deletes all defenses on the host.
3. Any player that so much as downloads Revelation will be immediately targetable, due to the unique broadcast feature, again.
4. At 6 hours per install, no parallel installs, one install per player, a day countdown, needed is a minimum of 10 players and half a week (3.5 days) of uncontested time.
5. Top players will be researching Faith and providing it freely to all.
6. "Faith anti-virus is faster then a normal anti-virus" - so it moves fast
etc.

So...  Who's worried?  You'd need 2.5 days to complete a basic infection, and if just one is disinfected at a time, another 6 hours are required.  After 2 and a half days of NOBODY actively stopping it, then begins the dangerous 24 hour countdown to doomsday...  Which only requires a maximum of 13 (10 base, +24 hours/6 hours per install... - we can safely ignore the last possible one to be installed at the moment of the explosion, as if there is still one left by that time it's too late anyway ;P) disinfections during that time period, which, by the way, is only after 2 and a half days where NOBODY did ANYTHING to stop it.

In short, downloading Revelation is like raising a big red flag over your server IP address....  Which is stupid for any but the highest players to do.  Even Crlaozwyn could then only install 1 (one) copy himself, and would need all of SGP to back him up.


For those who skim:
It's not going to happen.
Summary: It's so easy to stop, that it won't happen.



SirEmi - If I made any false assumptions, please correct me.  I am not asserting that your feature is useless - I am merely responding to the current objections as I see them.  Thank you all for taking the time to read the whole article before posting a reply.

Love,

Ged



Notes:
"When the virus is downloaded on a private gateway, it will leave a unique trace across the network and the server IP containing the virus will be visible across the world network in the Revelation Day room of the left menu. The virus will be visible regardless if it is installed or not." "The Revelation virus locations can be found in the Revelation Day room of the left main menu." - Support for 2 and 3
"Only ONE Revelation virus can be installed every 6 hours. If another Revelation install process completed, it will notify the remaining time before another Revelation virus can be installed." - Support for 4
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Ged Crimsonclaw
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« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2008, 10:44:38 PM »

'Nuff said.
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siremi
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« Reply #63 on: August 24, 2008, 11:16:28 PM »

I totally agree with Ged Crimsonclaw, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

We'll probably see the first Revelation Day in a few months or so. Until then, it's a nice way to keep things interesting  1
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Player
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« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2008, 11:16:49 PM »

Depents on the virus stats.

For example, you can start download multiple copies (say 10) of the virus, and complete the download at the same time. Dont activate the virus ( so people cant use AV) Start to mass research them, ( delete file speeds is only roughly equal to 15 kb/s, should be possible to overcome with enough research ) Once your virus reached a very high level, like say version 500000 that takes forever to disinfect, start to install the virus and Boom. Reset.

Of course the above is theoretical and could be completely off.   laugh
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siremi
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« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2008, 11:20:00 PM »


Start to mass research them, ( delete file speeds is only roughly equal to 15 kb/s, should be possible to overcome with enough research )


And how would you research when every noob can crack the server and kill the research job? It would be a cat / mouse game 1

version 500000... I can't even imagine how much hardware you would need for that  laugh
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 11:22:18 PM by siremi » Logged

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« Reply #66 on: August 24, 2008, 11:29:39 PM »

Ok I admit, I dont know that research can be killed by remotehost  ( silly me )  16


But you can still make massive copies of the virus in multiple servers right? and put them into activation mode. so its still possible if you got like 500000 ( lol that number again ) uninstalled virus and when you choose to install 10, there is a good chance of those 10 going off.
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ZacQuicksilver
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« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2008, 12:15:15 AM »

All changes / updates are for the benefit of the game.
Persistent worlds are destined to get boring.


Everquest lasted how many years? It only dies because newer, better games came out.

WoW is still going strong, as is EVE online (7 and 5 years respectively).

Puzzle pirates is also 5, and has over 3 million people playing. Granted it has 8 "oceans" (servers) now, but it has no resets (even in the 8th "test server")

Even Pardus, another browser-based game puts the lie to that: it is approaching it's 4th birthday (and I've been playing for over a year), and it is going strong. The closest thing it has had to a reset was last June, when they opened two more servers. The first server, however, continues onwards.

On the flip side, there is no game that has achieved any level of acclaim that has resets.


The Statement "Persistent worlds are destined to get boring." is not supported by any facts: what is shown is that the best MMOs available do not reset, and instead continue to expand to keep experienced players challenged and new players supported.



Siremi, While I am a novice game developer (I have yet to publish a game in any form), I still know that the voice of the players is far more important that one's own goals: I lost a good game to my own blindness (I added a major change that was unpopular, and didn't listen to people say they didn't like it). Heed my warning: your current path will destroy this game, as surely as anything you can do.


And if you ignore my warning, I will have no choice but to consider this game dead, and cease to expend energy trying to make it better.
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I hack games, not computers, in my life.

I'm NOT SGP, no matter how much I support them on the forums.


Pardus.at. Let me know if you play.
siremi
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« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2008, 01:01:56 AM »


Everquest lasted how many years? It only dies because newer, better games came out.

WoW is still going strong, as is EVE online (7 and 5 years respectively).

Puzzle pirates is also 5, and has over 3 million people playing. Granted it has 8 "oceans" (servers) now, but it has no resets (even in the 8th "test server")

Even Pardus, another browser-based game puts the lie to that: it is approaching it's 4th birthday (and I've been playing for over a year), and it is going strong. The closest thing it has had to a reset was last June, when they opened two more servers. The first server, however, continues onwards.


WoW == 0 (see Southpark 1008 - Make Love, Not Warcraft)

Eve == best time I had was as a newbie, now I log once a month to change a skill. Have lots of isk and high skills and it's all boring as expected. Tried everything, but nothing compared to a new beginning...

HP is different and not about profit, HP is all about change and exploring new ideas. Some may not like it because it's too radical, others may enjoy it, but HP will always have an active community.

HP is a project that is just beginning to unravel. How can anyone state that a 2 and a half months old game is going to die? It's ridiculous.

Now please stop arguing about death and all that, it's not going to happen. The game started from 0 players and had 1000 registered in the first two days. If you don't like the changes, by all means, try the above persistent commercial games.

That's all.



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Ged Crimsonclaw
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« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2008, 03:58:03 AM »

I totally agree with Ged Crimsonclaw, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

We'll probably see the first Revelation Day in a few months or so. Until then, it's a nice way to keep things interesting  1

Umm...  You say that you agree, and then you say that you don't  21.  What I said was - a reset will probably never happen  1.

To player - I have already responded to you above.  Please to read my post, thank you.

To Zac, Ebolla, HJ, etc...  HP is NOT getting reset!  The player support for Faith is abundantly clear, and as long as there are enough current and active players that oppose a reset, it can not happen.
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RaiseCain
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« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2008, 05:26:51 AM »

Sure, we all think that it is unlikely that HP will be reset. It will be powerfull players aswell as groups who are going to prevent it, yes you are right.
But it will be a constant job cracking and disinfecting every Revelation virus out there, leaving no room to actually play this game (a bit of exaggerating). And as mentioned earlier it will be a drain on AP.

So even though there might be enough players to stop Revelation, the game will still limit them in their actions.
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Magna Carta
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« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2008, 06:53:23 AM »

I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

I leave the problem as to whether the reset will or will not happen to others. The problem, as I see it, is not the idea of a reset, but the idea of a reset on a game which many were led to believe would not be reset.

There's a reason other games have introduced new servers, because there is something to be said for the fun of playing from humble beginnings and raising oneself to the top through effort and cleverness. In many instances, and for some people, this is the part of the game that is most enjoyable. But that is not so for everyone, and these people thought (with good reason) that their work would not be wiped out by a reset, hence the frustration one hears on this thread.

What disappoints me the most about the Revelation/Faith idea is not so much the reset, as the fact that the setting of this game could offer so much more. To put it bluntly, it's an awful way to 'end' the game, considering the fact that a conflict between True Light and the three mega-corps allows so many possibilities for an interesting storyline, with the possibility of side stories, for players to enjoy. I saw a game with possibilities, and I now see a game that is wrapped up before it had the chance to flourish.

This post is not directed against anyone. I just felt I needed to express my disappointment.
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Crlaozwyn
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« Reply #72 on: August 25, 2008, 09:15:02 AM »

Nice post Magna Carta.

I just thought of something terribly unbalancing... Players are allowed to have multiple accounts, as long as they don't interact with other. Each new account has 3K AP. Each account can only install one Revelation virus. What's to stop a player who wants this to happen from making 100 accounts and having each one install the virus? Sure, it would be stopped at first, but since it costs AP to disinfect/stop, eventually players would actually be unable to do anything. Even though 99% of the players don't want a reset, in a way it's inevitable.
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virus man
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« Reply #73 on: August 25, 2008, 09:43:39 AM »

EQ is still going strong.  Yes they have condensed servers but they are still out there.
SWG was killed by unpopular changes IE Newb Experience, and Combat Downgrade
WoW while it has never attracted me it is still going strong.
Eve-Online is going strong as well.  And anyone who thinks it gets boring at the high end is smoking crack or trying to lie.  There is stuff to do at all levels.  Granted if all you are is a miner then yeah it gets boring.  But look at the war that has ravaged Eve for what 2 years now?
HP is weakening.  That is evident by the #1 player selling his account and the #2 player thinking of doing the same.  It is evident by the number of "players" that are inactive.  It is evident in the fact that this forum has dropped from dozens upon dozens of messages a day to just a few in comparison.  It is evident in the fact that there is no competition for SGP, AiR, EoD, or TNW.  It is evident by the fact that There have been no real updates to the game in over a month.  It is evident by the fact that the same items on the Task list from over a month ago are still there.  It is evident in the fact that the developer GAVE HIS WORD this world would be persistant and that there would be other worlds that would have rounds.  It is evident in the fact that no other worlds will be put up now.  It is evident that even though the majority of the players do NOT like the "Revelation Day" idea that the developer is still going through with it knowing full well that people will leave the game in waves.
Astro Empires still going strong.  In fact I think they have opened up 1 or 2 more servers or at least have plans for it.

Quote from this page as I am typing this.
"Subverting tyranny is the highest duty."
Yet we have no way to subvert this tyranny as the Developer feels his way is the best way even to the contrary responses to the others.

Sir Emi if you decide to actually do this then this is not the game I paid for and donated to help grow.  As such I would like a refund of all donated money.  I will keep the gold but I want the rest of my money back.
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New World Order
Seb
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« Reply #74 on: August 25, 2008, 10:05:19 AM »

      On the plus side, it's pretty good RP if you wanted to start an anti-revelation group  16
Crl, I think SirEmi should be adding that as an abuse  2 because I think otherwise it's perfectly good with the no interacting accounts law..
      Well, I realize that eternally switching off the revelation viruses would get boring very quickly, if enough people shut them down you might not have to bring one down every day, either that, or no one starts up a revelation virus. I hope both are true.
      Could we get an official organization of groups and lone hacker started that just has the purpose of eradicating any revelation virus... I think it would just be there to have a group of people willing to bring them down more then an actual coordinated alliance.

- I'm still a newb, so if my post is way off.. tell me why :D
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